Ross definitely. Milton at least gave the gang multiple chances to turn Dutch in and/or leave.
Ross literally killed John after forcing him to go hunt down and kill the remaining gang members.
well the difference is that Milton said that they can leave and at least *try* to live normal lives, but basically if they ran into them again i’m sure they’d get arrested
ross on the other hand is literally just an asshole… after John was *FREED* from his debt/crimes by hunting the three boys down (as that was the deal), broski backtracked and came back to bite john in the ass
Illegal? Maybe.
But considering how things were done back in those days and adding the fact that government agencies throughout history have done far worse things in the name of justice and with impunity. Using an ex-gang member while helding his family hostage? that is a walk in the park and a probable scenario.
Let alone killing him afterwards.
It was about tying loose ends.
If it were more brutally realistic, they probably would have killed Abigail and Jack too, no witnesses-style.
Just erase everyone involved.
The funny part was that wasn’t even the deal. Originally it was just Bill. Then Javier got wrapped into the mix and instead taking the 2 for 1 deal, they threw John a curve ball and said “now you need to kill Dutch”
Maybe we do. Milton found Dutch’s gang and confronted them without an army. Ross literally had a gun pointed at Arthur and didn’t shoot presumably on Milton’s orders even with a large bounty on Arthur. Milton mostly wanted Dutch and that’s probably why he let Arthur be
Ross is not a nice person. One can get the vibe that his subordinates in RDR1 don't like him very much unless they are psychopats too.
RDR2 Online's Moonshiner's main antagonist from the Bureau of Internal Revenue, Senior agent Reid Hixon shares many qualites with Edgar Ross. Hixon is ruthless in the ways he hunts illecit distellers.
The difference is that in the end Ross did not beg for his life because he did not have career aspirations any longer when retired so he could basically go "F\*ck it".
I can't help but feel Milton was genuinely just doing his job. He was ruthless and hostile sure, but you probably you have to like that in order to survive in the world of hunting wanted men. Ross just felt like he was being an asshole just because he could.
If your job consists of brutalizing innocent people and threatening populations into subjugation then yes that makes you a bad person.
Good people don't end up in positions like Milton or Ross. Those jobs don't reward good behaviour. They reward violent behavior.
If you're a good person who does bad things for a paycheck, you're a bad person.
That's true I guess lmao, Milton did murder Matt Calendar as a "mercy killing". Though we never see this, I think Milton probably could've saved Matt and put him in prison but murdering him was just easier
And idk about you but murder is bad...
Was it murder tho? Mac was already “nearly dead, pretty shot up” (I forget the exact in-game dialogue) after Blackwater and probably nearly breathing his final breathes by the time Milton got to him. Who knows if he even really “killed” him. He could’ve just said that to piss Arthur off as that was the main point of that scene. If he did, I would call it a mercy killing more than anything. But we don’t know because R* didn’t include that scene or show Mac at all in the game, of course.
Personally, I think Milton saying "pretty shot up, slow but merciful etc" is just a lie to twist the knife in Arthur. I mean if Milton was actually a good person/professional, if you found a van der linde gang member, even if they were "pretty shot up", you'd almost certainly want to keep them alive right? The potential information they might have, as well as using them as a bargaining tool, bait etc. Also if you listen to how Milton says the line, he clearly intends for the words to sting.
Obviously this is speculation though because we've never seen it.
As I type this tho...lying to Arthur about Matt's death wouldn't accomplish anything so he probably is just telling him the truth...
I've confused myself ngl
EDIT: to answer the question tho. In a legal sense, if Matt calendar was alive when Milton got to him and then Milton shot him, that is murder. Regardless of level of injury, matt was alive and Milton made him...well not alive so yeah it is murder
Didn’t the gang talk about how Mac was shot to shit in Blackwater during the game’s prologue when they’re riding in the wagons up in the snow? Again, been a minute so I don’t remember the exact dialogue but it was something like “and Mac, well he was shot to hell but we’re pretty sure he got out of there” … now I wanna rewatch the opening scene lol. But yeah I don’t see much of an advantage for Milton to lie to Arthur about Mac during the fishing scene. He already pretty much knows Arthur is gonna be loyal to his gang but he’s gotta try. Gotta go on a fishing expedition himself (bad joke). It’s what cops do and why it’s called that. They DO also lie and manipulate during said expeditions but it’s usually when there’s an end game and pissing off Arthur when he’s “trying” to turn him doesn’t seem like good bait (damn again with the bad fishing pun jokes but that wasn’t on purpose this time).
There’s the cliched excuse that people become cops to “help people, help the community, do some good etc etc” but those people, esp if they were in the armed services before hand, can’t be that ignorant. The ones who become cops do it for the power and (possibly) legal violence while getting a nice paycheck esp with OT added-in. The Serpico-like ones don’t survive and either get fired or leave 99.9% of the time I would think. There are sooooo many better options out there for work if you want to really try to make an impact on society at large and in people’s lives.
Ironically, police depts across the US are having issues hiring new recruits rn. Can’t imagine why. Maybe because the “bad apples” (such a lame excuse) are finally starting to be held accountable for their actions and everyone hates them? Yeah maybe that’s it. Maybe. 😂
Milton was a man of his own odd values, I think he truly believed that the outlaws were being faced with extinction and merely hanging on to a drifting dream in the face of societal progress. So yes I think if John did actually put in the work for him, he would have let him go believing he had earned it as a man of "civilization"
As others have said he did give the gang numerous chances to turn in Dutch, albeit while threatening them. He could have sent his men in at any time when he found their camp to kill them all, but he waited a pretty long time. And when he had Hosea and Dutch finally wanted to make a deal, Milton believed he had given him enough chances
The best way I could describe Milton is a man of business, cold and calculated but willing to compromise to get something done. I think Milton just ended up having enough of Dutch's games. Whereas Ross was leaning far more towards power tripping
Edit: Milton was more of an idealist, Ross was more of an egotist
Milton has always stuck me as an antivillan. His objectives are not inherently evil, it’s just that his actions often overstep what’s necessary or outright lead to more harm
While the Pinkertons weren't exactly angels, the Van Der Linde gang really is a group of people who are robbers and murderers so Milton's actions are at least understandable.
Shooting Hosea in the back of the head while the gang was trying to negotiate with him was, uh, pretty evil. Like, escalating a situation when you have said situation under control without said escalation isn't exactly great, espescially when you're dealing with a highly-dangerous group of people who are capable of taking 30 of your men down before you get to them even if you win. That's how you get a whole bunch of people killed for no good reason, both on your side and theirs. Furthermore, Hosea was unarmed, with his back turned, and he was scared. Shooting him like that was not only cowardly, but straight-out decietful. That was an evil act.
Milton was a manager in a violent corporation that regularly went beyond the law to enforce the interests of ruch folks. Even if he weren't, that escalation didn't do anything but escalate a conflict that could've been resolved with no bloodshed at all if he'd been smart or decent about it.
He >!kidnapped her during the train heist in the Beaver Hollow chapter. It's been a while since I've played, but I don't recall him trying to kill her, I think it may have just been a ploy to draw out the gang from hiding or to kill Arthur specifically by holding her hostage at Van Horn. IIRC it was all in response to the gang's continued activity but I'd need to read the wiki/play the game again to be sure.!<
Nah, Milton was the good guy. He’s trying to lock up murderers and thieves. The gang haven’t been the Robin Hood-types they used to be for years. They’re just outlaws by the time of RDR2.
he had been taken captive, disarmed and was held at gunpoint.
Them they shoved him into the gunfight and executed him in cold blood. If thats not a crime i dont know what is.
They were never really were Robin Hoods. And them robbing rich people was never about social justice, it was just because they had more money to be taken lol . At the end of the day it’s just an excuse for their own selfish greed and lack of regard for society and there’s a big difference between mere theft and robbery, these guys terrorized so many innocent people, killed innocent civilians.
Also I noticed theres always been this exaggeration of how many people actually saw outlaws as Robin Hood’s. Like when it comes to the likes of those like the James younger gang were there people who sympathized with them and wanted to think of him as a Robin Hood? ( mostly former confederate buckwackers) Yes but that was only a small minority of people. The vast majority of people saw them as scum and wanted them dead. Also I think some people just take things the wrong way, like being fascinated by these figures does not mean you admire or condone their actions. I always thought it was weird to call people like this “folk hero’s “ when only such a small minority actually saw them as hero’s.
it kinda makes sense. Milton worked for a private company. his boss could still hold him accountable and they answered to the highest payer. basically glorified bounty hunters for hire. by the time ross was in charge he was a government agent. and well zero oversight or caring is their MO. long as they can push the paper that says they did good thats all they are about.
Milton? The man who shot an unarmed elderly man to prove a point and fired a machine in a home full of women and kids? I just can't see it. Early game Milton maybe, but not a Milton who survives Arthur and Abigail.
The only federal agent in the series who'd actually leave John alone was Fordham because he was a real one.
You talk about Hosea like he wasn’t one of the founding and most crucial member of the gang. And also take into account the women and Jack had multiple chances to leave, yet they didn’t. Yes, Milton is the bad guy, but only because we see him through the gangs eyes.
Seriously, if a group of people came into my town, murdered half of its inhabitants and robbed everything they could see. I don't think I would mind the police using that kind of force
After the end of the main story, the gang had dissolved and Dutch was a ghost, so Milton had got what he wanted. He did the horrible things he did because he was angry that the rest of the gang kept refusing to give up Dutch. John agreed to help get rid of Dutch. Milton would’ve left him alone because of that. All he wanted was Dutch, nothing more (as long as the other gang members didn’t cause trouble).
Milton would have 100% let John live out his life on the ranch and honored the deal. He was interested in society and order and John had fallen into that line. He probably would have bragged about at the office how he even got a former outlaw to finish off what remained of a famous outlaw gang.
Fordham is not a real one lmao
If your talking about him not “arriving” to John’s deathbed that is untrue he is there. The myth is false
https://www.reddit.com/r/reddeadredemption/comments/kizf3e/fordham_was_present_in_beechers_hope_assault_by/
You mention all this as if Hosea wasn’t the one responsible to literally plan all the heists and robberies of the gang and helped many criminals and as if the home full of women and children wasn’t also packed with a bunch of deadly outlaws who work with them. Sure, it’s still questionable, but at least he doesn’t shoot a harmless family man who is willing to give up his outlaw life and past.
Ross was more sadistic imo. Milton was more about doing his duty, even giving the gang a chance to run away (more than once in Arthur's case). Ross, however, reveled in tormenting John, gloating over the power he had and then killing John anyway. Also Ross' first words (chronologically) were no less of him threatening infant Jack.
Ross betrayed John. Milton, even when he had chances to kill Arthur and others didn't, and tried to get them to turn in Dutch. I think Milton might have let the rest of the gang just disappear after bringing in Dutch.
Milton 100% saw the rest of the gang as victims of Dutch. His talk with Arthur about how being indoctrinated by Dutch was a story as old as time really characterizes that in him.
Like everyone else is saying, definitely Ross. Milton went easy on the gang at first and gave all of them, accept Dutch, chance after chance to run away and live like normal people. Only when shit really hit the fan did he start pushing them (St Denis bank robbery). In his eyes, they clearly weren’t ever going to stop and so he needed to raise the stakes.
Ross full on betrayed John. At least Milton was always clear about his intentions with the gang. Ross was a conniving snake and was never upfront about his full intentions. He kidnapped a mans wife & son, used him as his own personal hitman, let him reunite with said wife & son and let him think it was all over, and then killed him in cold blood unexpectedly just because.
Yeah, Milton was a bad man, but so were a lot of the gang members. In RDR2 both sides were bad in their own way (if we look at them as a whole). Both sides had killers and manipulators. Both sides became unhinged. In RDR1, John was just doing what he had to do for his family and he was taken advantage of and murdered.
Ross. At least Milton is only interested in arresting Dutch. If Milton ordered John to hunt down his former gang members, he will leave John after Dutch was killed. Milton will not betray John unless John causes trouble.
Ross. Motherfucker just couldn't let sleeping dogs lie. After Dutch finally died whether John pulled a trigger or not the debt should've been paid. At that point Sadie and Charles were long gone and more than likely weren't very wanted considering they were the last two to join the Gang save for Micah but he had a reputation beforehand so he was already very much wanted
Edgar Ross by a long shot. Milton is more neutral than evil, while Ross had a twisted sense of justice and he was ruthless, using a man and then butchering him in front of his own family (the family escaped but he didn't care if they saw it or not) while still talking about morality speaks about how evil Edgar Ross was. He did not care about justice really, he just wanted recognition, be the hero, even if he had to rat his way onto it.
Fair enough. The point here is that Ross is no different from him. He's sadistic from the moment he said "enjoy your fishing kid while you still can" to a kid.
Only thing that made Milton a villain was the games romantic view of outlaws, and I guess kidnapping Abigail at the end of the game.
Ross was a coward who forced John to do Ross's job for him, then sends the army after him once John is nothing but a loose end, all while John was living the life of a rancher, rather than an outlaw. He also sent John to Mexico, which had the end result of the government getting overthrown, which while it wasn't 100% ross's fault, he probably also didn't give a single shit about it.
These two characters aren't anywhere close to one another when it comes to morality.
Milton was far from a saint, and I would indeed call him a bad man, but I think he is far better than Ross.
Milton gave the gang a couple of chances to either turn in Dutch or make themselves scarce before he returned, and he also seemed uncomfortable with Cornwall’s order to screw the law and bring in Dutch any means necessary. He seems hyper focused on his view of the law and how it’s upheld, to the point that he considers killing Mac and Hosea fair. He is a bad man, but you can see how his ideals motivate his actions, and he is consistent with that, even if you disagree with him.
I honestly don’t think he would’ve done John dirty like Ross did.
I really wish I could live in the fairy tale land some players believe in where the man who [taunted Arthur about torturing Arthur's friend to death](https://youtu.be/6UUBjX3kTzM?t=638) was making a totally sincere offer to let him go free and live happily ever after.
[And how about the "give them to the count of five....NAH!"](https://youtu.be/jsgYFkATA30?t=125)
If you can't trust this man who speaks in Villain-ese, who can you trust?
In the first video, he could have killed Arthur then-and-there. He could have killed him in the warehouse toward the end of the game. He plenty of opportunities.
He also tried to get Dutch to surrender at Clemens point and he offered to let the rest of the gang to go free.
The gang constantly refused. So we got to that point in the second video.
"taunted Arthur about torturing Arthur's friend to death"
His friend was an outlaw and a murderer,and according to charles,both callender boys were a pair of menaces to society.
"give them to the count of five....NAH!"
He had enough from them,he has given them plenty of chances to run off,but they kept murdering and destroying everyone in their path.
Also,how they can still care about children when they are literally murdering hundreds of lives.
It's painful to say this,specially after hosea's death,but...agent milton was definitely fair with them.
It’s tough… I see lots of people saying Ross easily, but Milton did shoot Hosea in cold blood. Milton seemed to be more by-the-book and orthodox than Ross though- Ross seemed particularly unhinged.
Milton was only hired to bring down the Gang after they had shot up a ferry killing multiple civilians and robbing a train for hundreds of 1899 dollars in goods. Ross came into the picture blackmailing a man who hadn't committed a crime in a decade by kidnapping his family; largely for the purpose of seeking personal glory and just so a corrupt politician can boost his chances of being elected governor. Milton offered the gang numerous chances to disperse and walk free after everything they done with solely the exception of Dutch (duh), which is frankly the best deal they could've got seeing how it all turned out. Milton seems to actually believe in his ideals of society & civilization and has nothing personal beyond that, while Ross is clearly just out for his own interests.
Do y'all forget that like the gang is a bunch of criminals? and not just like "stealing bread to feed the family" criminals like they murder people on the reg. Valentine, Strawberry, Rhodes. Some people deserved it, but a lot of others didn't. If anything, Milton went too light on them for being a bunch of murderers.
Milton played by the rules. He gave them multiple peace options and negotiations, and never killed any of them.
Ross however, is a lying snake who promises peace negotiations then shoots down a father who had followed everything they said
Ross was just a plain asshole to everyone Milton at least seemed like he had a reason for what he was doing but Ross threatened John Marston to kill or capture Javier Escuella, Bill Williamson, and Dutch Van Der Linde. Ross then framed John by shooting Dutch’s corpse with John’s gun which then allowed Ross to go to Beacher’s Hope and gun down John the worst thing that comes to my mind for Milton would be trying to kill Arthur but even then he gave Arthur more chances to run away from Dutch and start a new life than he did for anyone else so Ross is worse
Believe it or not, Milton was fair with the gang, giving them multiple chances, more than they deserved. Milton only wanted Dutch, he didn't even want Arthur, just Dutch. But they kept pushing it and forced Milton's hand. Ross on the other hand wanted control and to completely eradicate the gang, betraying John even after hunting the last known members of the gang. Ross is corrupt, and Milton is fair
Ross operated in the bounderies of the law, but backstabbed john despite having made an agreement.
Milton gave the gang the opertunity to hand over dutch and run off for a better life, but he executed Hosea in a bordeline KGB’esce fashion, meaning he *should* have gotten some form of trial and absolutley been demoted from authority.
I believe everyone feels a way about Ross because of the events of the first game but fail to take into account of what happens in the second. If Milton doesn’t get killed by the Van Der Linde gang, assuming that’s what they believe to have happened since they don’t know that it was Abigail that killed him specifically, I don’t think Ross kills John since that was essentially his vengeance for Milton. So as sad as I hate to admit it Ross had a right to treat John the way he did seeing as how Milton offered chances of freedom and only Micah took it which ultimately caused Milton’s death. I say all this to say I believe that it is a tie for Milton and Ross.
Ross for sure. Milton gave everyone chances and while who’s to say he wouldn’t have betrayed those who gave themselves in we know for a fact Ross did. Milton offered the gang (aside from Dutch) a chance to go free. Ross took Jon on a wild goose chase then came to his ranch and shot him dead with an army behind him. I really don’t think it’s close
Ross is the worst, but none of them is inherently evil I believe. They were simply products of their day and age. Ross compared to Milton and Fordman showed far less restraint and a lot more brutality, making him more unlikable.
Actually I think it goes Fordman>Milton>Ross (best to worst).
Ross was way worse due to the fact that Milton was hunting down dangerous murderers and thieves while Ross was forcing a somewhat peaceful man to take up arms again and start killing his way back to his family just to end up slaughtering him anyway
If you only played RDR2 it’s Milton, but if you played the first game definitely Ross. He kidnapped John’s family to do the government’s dirty work and when John completed his mission Ross still screws him over.
Milton was doing his job. He only wanted Dutch and gave the other gang members many chances to leave and start fresh somewhere else. Ross became the man he was because of the trail of destruction the van der linde gang left everywhere they went.
Ross by far the way he lit that cigar and laughed after he tricked John into doing his job for him and using John’s hopes and dreams of being a family man and being left alone and forgetting that life ever happened against him
Milton seemed to actually only want Dutch. He was just doing his job. Ross used John and his love for his family as a pawn to do his job for him, and then killed him when he outlived his usefulness to Ross.
Tragic to see Jack follow his father’s footsteps but it was great to see Ross meet his demise to Jack.
I think people forget milton killed hosea in cold blood in the middle of saint denis and threatened jack. Milton didnt care about casualties and quite liteally took over an entire town just to kill the van der linde gang. Yes he gave the gang two chances but he at the end of the day killed hosea and told a child that he killed his uncle.
It’s like saying killing Jesse James irl was a bad action and they should be shunned for it, Milton was just doing his job of eradicating mass murdering psychopaths(Dutch proven to be one) while Ross was a manipulative dick who betrayed John after he did his dirty work.
If you look at the gang from an outside eye RDR 2’s events justifies more than eradicating the gang whereas in RDR 1 poor John did not deserve what came to him at all because he legitimately earned his freedom.
Ross was actually just a monster with a raging hard on for violence against the Vand der Linde gang.
Milton was someone who actually offered redemption to everybody except their boss, he was kind of a good person actually.
Ross, at the VERY least, Milton keep his words, he gave the gang many chances to turn back but Dutch just pushed the gang deeper and deeper into abyss. Ross forced John to kill former gang members then killed John, a complete coward and liar. If Milton was the one making John go after the gang members, he would've let John live his live afterwards as long as John cause no more trouble.
I'd say both as despite Milton doing his job but at times he pushed it to far were executed Hosea in the middle of the street and was unarmed and surrendered. Ross was another case as he was basically like Milton just doing but to things to extreme, as he kidnapped or in his word detained his family from there without a warrant to force john to hunt his former gang members and when he was done killed John. BUt if Milton was in Ross's place in RDR1 he would've let john live his life as in the second game he gave the gang a chance to disolve peacefully
Ross easily.
However iirc while he is a dick, the mayor actually ordered him to hunt down John after freeing him for his election campaign promises. I read a theory that had the government not wanted John dead, Ross would’ve left him alone.
Ross was definitely worse as I got more satisfaction killing him than Milton. Why was Ross worse?
1. He had John killed after John fulfilled his end of the bargain hunting down the remnants of Dutchs gang.
2. He threatened Jack when he was a child...literally making a threat to a child is all kinds of messed up.
3. Milton clearly was keeping Ross in check but once Milton died Ross was able to be the evil bastard he is.
I mean to be honest. If there was a group of ruffians going around killing and stealing who they pleased.
I think Ross and Milton would definitely be the good guys off told from their perspective.
They're both doing their jobs by trying to stop a gang of thieves and murderers. Sure, we may like all the van der linde gang members and wish them the best but the fact is sooner or later they have to pay for their deeds. Ross doesn't play clean but he's still the protagonist, like it or not. He lies to John Marston but hey, why does John Marston deserve not to be lied to? Both detectives get their hands dirty to fight crime, like it or not.
Edgar Ross, I may be wrong, but if i remember correctly Milton gave at least one chance to the gang and one chance to Arthur before that. While Ross kidnapped john’s family and made him kill and/or deliver them to him and to archer Fordham. I don’t think that Milton would’ve done the same thing to Arthur as Ross has done to John aka >!betraying and killing him, even if he (still being a criminal in the past) did all of the work for Ross, and this is why I hate him more than Micah by the way
100% Ross, Milton just wanted to kill/capture dutch at first but when the gang kept on killing and robbing he went after then too because he had no choice, Ross on the other hand hunted down the remaining gang members and brutally executed the one helping him
Milton was doing his job and gave the gang not one, but two warnings to give up and go live normally, and he died pretty much trying to defend himself from Arthur.
Ross, however tracked down John long after he’d already given up his life in the gang like Milton would’ve wanted, kidnapped his family, forced him to hunt down and kill his old friends and even after John did everything Ross wanted, Ross just came in with the army to kill John, knowing fully well he isn’t a threat anymore. And when jack comes for revenge, Ross doesn’t even give an apology any sort of condolences, but threatens to kill jack too even though he didn’t do anything.
TL;DR Milton was doing his job. Ross was a lying scumbag who manipulated John into killing his old friends.
I hope its ross who is in charge of holding hostage of abigail and sadie in van horn 1899
instead of milton imagine ross died in rdr2 milton alive in rdr1 he would leave john alone after forcing
Him to hunt down javier bill and dutch and not betray him
Ross was worse, at least agent Milton tried to give Arthur and the whole gang a chance at freedom and we can see that he kept his word by releasing Micah Bell and putting him under some kind of "protection" for dismantling the band from within.
Why do you think Micah spent 8 years doing bad things and right after he died the FBI went to find out who killed him?
Probably at that moment Edgar Ross saw the perfect opportunity to put an end to the disbanded Van der Linde gang, and Marston was the most likely to take orders because of what he could lose if he didn't play along with the Bureau
Ross is the worst, he forces John to hunt down and kill his former gang then doesn’t even have the decency to go by his word and leave him alone, a man who goes back on his word isn’t a man at all.
Milton at least have the gang chances and I must admit I feel he would actually stick to his word of letting the other gang members go if they have him Dutch, as he said he doesn’t want to kill all of them, he recognises they were all lost and Dutch lead them astray. Cut off the leader and it’s over
Milton was an idealistic who had his own sense of Justice and wasn’t afraid of delivering it to those he deemed to far gone. Milton wasn’t afraid of killing the whole gang, but he through his own view of justice deemed it appropriate to give the lesser members an opportunity to walk away. Even have them the chance to just turn in Dutch and move along. He could have killed Arthur by the river, but he chose to send a message instead. Could have rolled into their camp with 50 men strong, but gave the gang a chance. It wasn’t until he deemed the whole gang unworthy was when he started opening fire on all of them.
Ross never planned on letting John live. From day one he was using him and had always planned on having him killed. Milton while still not a good man would have likely deemed John somewhat redeemed on the eyes of the law, but I imagine he’d have some agents keep an eye on John just in case he slipped up.
Agent Milton wasn’t afraid to do the work himself, he chased the gang with a decent amount of honor and was going to get the work done properly.
Ross on the other hand had John do his dirty work then to hide his cowardice, shot John like a dog
My opinion is that realistically, given the time and their objective; 1800’s tracking down a murderous gang of outlaws, Milton has patience rivalling a saint I mean the whole gang could have been exterminated in Clemons Point had he not been kind enough to offer EVERYONE but Dutch a new life, which to me is wayyyy more than fair to most of them. Ross seemed vindictive and like his career/accolades meant more than his morals. He knew John was docile at that point, not committing crimes and living life as a family man but the inkling of a possibility that John reverts to the outlaw life probably made Ol’ Ross shake in his boots so instead of possessing any sort of backbone he used and murdered him.. to me it’s a clear cut difference
Ross, for reasons that others have already stated. Milton gave the gang a chance to turn on Dutch in exchange for the chance to live a normal life, free of crime. I'm inclined to believe that if Milton had sent John on his assignment instead of Ross, Milton would've honoured his word and let John live peacefully. In Milton's eyes, John would've earned his freedom as a man of civilisation.
The thing that I think a lot of people are missing is the fact that Ross was also a part of Milton’s fight against the gang. He witnessed Milton give the gang countless of chances to live normal lives and he witnessed that same gang kill him. I’m not saying that Ross was a better man than Milton. I’m just saying he didn’t want to risk suffering the same fate.
Milton while cruel mostly had mercy on the gang a multitude of times and was just doing his job while Ross went against a deal and shot marathon like a dog he’s the Micah bell of rdr1
Edgar Ross literally played with John Marston like a puppet, almost the entire time.
Andrew Milton had honor, he didn't want to kill all of the gang members, he just wanted Dutch, and the only reason he wants Dutch is because he got an order.
He even gets mad at us at the end of Chapter 3 for not turning on Dutch because he would have to kill us too in that case lol.
I really respect Milton, he is just doing his job, he doesn't enjoy it.
But Ross, he is different. He just used John to do his work, made him get Bill, Javier and finally Dutch. And even after that, he didn't let John go. He came for him and killed him anyway even after everything John has done.
Milton makes Arthur an offer in the early game, around chapter 2. He says that if Arthur give Dutch to the Pinkertons, Arthur and the others will be free to go, especially he promised Arthur's safety. Of course Arthur refused it because he is loyal af, but I think if Arthur accepted that offer Milton would keep his word and let them go.
Canonically speaking, Ross is worse. Milton at least gave the gang 2 or 3 chances to turn themselves and/or Dutch in. Outlaws did what they do best. So extreme scenarios call for extreme measures. Ross is a man in a position of power that bent the rules how they best benefited him. That alone is enough in my opinion to cement him as evil.
Ross definitely. Milton at least gave the gang multiple chances to turn Dutch in and/or leave. Ross literally killed John after forcing him to go hunt down and kill the remaining gang members.
Tbf we don’t know if Milton would have done the same
well the difference is that Milton said that they can leave and at least *try* to live normal lives, but basically if they ran into them again i’m sure they’d get arrested ross on the other hand is literally just an asshole… after John was *FREED* from his debt/crimes by hunting the three boys down (as that was the deal), broski backtracked and came back to bite john in the ass
Not to mention what Ross did was massively illegal even back then.
Illegal? Maybe. But considering how things were done back in those days and adding the fact that government agencies throughout history have done far worse things in the name of justice and with impunity. Using an ex-gang member while helding his family hostage? that is a walk in the park and a probable scenario. Let alone killing him afterwards. It was about tying loose ends. If it were more brutally realistic, they probably would have killed Abigail and Jack too, no witnesses-style. Just erase everyone involved.
Yeah lmao if the FBI or CIA were held accountable for breach of the law, they wouldn't have survived the 50s.
Or the 60’s. Or 70’s. 80’s. 90’s. Or 2000’s. Or right now. Lol.
True that.
The funny part was that wasn’t even the deal. Originally it was just Bill. Then Javier got wrapped into the mix and instead taking the 2 for 1 deal, they threw John a curve ball and said “now you need to kill Dutch”
Ross was an asshole to kiddie Jack.
I feel like Milton said that just so they would turn in Dutch and then go hunt them down. That’s how I’ve always seen it.
Maybe we do. Milton found Dutch’s gang and confronted them without an army. Ross literally had a gun pointed at Arthur and didn’t shoot presumably on Milton’s orders even with a large bounty on Arthur. Milton mostly wanted Dutch and that’s probably why he let Arthur be
"When I'm gone they'll find another monster. They have to, because they have to justify their wages."
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Valid point. Ross is a monster. Milton isn't much evil, he just has a problem with Dutch.
He does get tiresomely melodramatic in chap 5, though.
Ross is not a nice person. One can get the vibe that his subordinates in RDR1 don't like him very much unless they are psychopats too. RDR2 Online's Moonshiner's main antagonist from the Bureau of Internal Revenue, Senior agent Reid Hixon shares many qualites with Edgar Ross. Hixon is ruthless in the ways he hunts illecit distellers. The difference is that in the end Ross did not beg for his life because he did not have career aspirations any longer when retired so he could basically go "F\*ck it".
Which is totally fair given Dutchs life choices.
I can't help but feel Milton was genuinely just doing his job. He was ruthless and hostile sure, but you probably you have to like that in order to survive in the world of hunting wanted men. Ross just felt like he was being an asshole just because he could.
"Just doing his job" is exactly what makes him a bad person.
I suppose it depends though right? Does doing a bad job make you inherently a bad person?
If your job consists of brutalizing innocent people and threatening populations into subjugation then yes that makes you a bad person. Good people don't end up in positions like Milton or Ross. Those jobs don't reward good behaviour. They reward violent behavior. If you're a good person who does bad things for a paycheck, you're a bad person.
That's true I guess lmao, Milton did murder Matt Calendar as a "mercy killing". Though we never see this, I think Milton probably could've saved Matt and put him in prison but murdering him was just easier And idk about you but murder is bad...
Was it murder tho? Mac was already “nearly dead, pretty shot up” (I forget the exact in-game dialogue) after Blackwater and probably nearly breathing his final breathes by the time Milton got to him. Who knows if he even really “killed” him. He could’ve just said that to piss Arthur off as that was the main point of that scene. If he did, I would call it a mercy killing more than anything. But we don’t know because R* didn’t include that scene or show Mac at all in the game, of course.
Personally, I think Milton saying "pretty shot up, slow but merciful etc" is just a lie to twist the knife in Arthur. I mean if Milton was actually a good person/professional, if you found a van der linde gang member, even if they were "pretty shot up", you'd almost certainly want to keep them alive right? The potential information they might have, as well as using them as a bargaining tool, bait etc. Also if you listen to how Milton says the line, he clearly intends for the words to sting. Obviously this is speculation though because we've never seen it. As I type this tho...lying to Arthur about Matt's death wouldn't accomplish anything so he probably is just telling him the truth... I've confused myself ngl EDIT: to answer the question tho. In a legal sense, if Matt calendar was alive when Milton got to him and then Milton shot him, that is murder. Regardless of level of injury, matt was alive and Milton made him...well not alive so yeah it is murder
Didn’t the gang talk about how Mac was shot to shit in Blackwater during the game’s prologue when they’re riding in the wagons up in the snow? Again, been a minute so I don’t remember the exact dialogue but it was something like “and Mac, well he was shot to hell but we’re pretty sure he got out of there” … now I wanna rewatch the opening scene lol. But yeah I don’t see much of an advantage for Milton to lie to Arthur about Mac during the fishing scene. He already pretty much knows Arthur is gonna be loyal to his gang but he’s gotta try. Gotta go on a fishing expedition himself (bad joke). It’s what cops do and why it’s called that. They DO also lie and manipulate during said expeditions but it’s usually when there’s an end game and pissing off Arthur when he’s “trying” to turn him doesn’t seem like good bait (damn again with the bad fishing pun jokes but that wasn’t on purpose this time).
There’s the cliched excuse that people become cops to “help people, help the community, do some good etc etc” but those people, esp if they were in the armed services before hand, can’t be that ignorant. The ones who become cops do it for the power and (possibly) legal violence while getting a nice paycheck esp with OT added-in. The Serpico-like ones don’t survive and either get fired or leave 99.9% of the time I would think. There are sooooo many better options out there for work if you want to really try to make an impact on society at large and in people’s lives. Ironically, police depts across the US are having issues hiring new recruits rn. Can’t imagine why. Maybe because the “bad apples” (such a lame excuse) are finally starting to be held accountable for their actions and everyone hates them? Yeah maybe that’s it. Maybe. 😂
Well- he did kinda kidnap a woman and a child. There’s no “just doing your job” in that sense
If Milton was still in charge in RDR1 he would have left john alone after john completed his mission. Probably
Milton was a man of his own odd values, I think he truly believed that the outlaws were being faced with extinction and merely hanging on to a drifting dream in the face of societal progress. So yes I think if John did actually put in the work for him, he would have let him go believing he had earned it as a man of "civilization" As others have said he did give the gang numerous chances to turn in Dutch, albeit while threatening them. He could have sent his men in at any time when he found their camp to kill them all, but he waited a pretty long time. And when he had Hosea and Dutch finally wanted to make a deal, Milton believed he had given him enough chances The best way I could describe Milton is a man of business, cold and calculated but willing to compromise to get something done. I think Milton just ended up having enough of Dutch's games. Whereas Ross was leaning far more towards power tripping Edit: Milton was more of an idealist, Ross was more of an egotist
Milton has always stuck me as an antivillan. His objectives are not inherently evil, it’s just that his actions often overstep what’s necessary or outright lead to more harm
Lawful Evil if you will.
I don’t think he ever really did anything evil in the game
While the Pinkertons weren't exactly angels, the Van Der Linde gang really is a group of people who are robbers and murderers so Milton's actions are at least understandable.
Shooting Hosea in the back of the head while the gang was trying to negotiate with him was, uh, pretty evil. Like, escalating a situation when you have said situation under control without said escalation isn't exactly great, espescially when you're dealing with a highly-dangerous group of people who are capable of taking 30 of your men down before you get to them even if you win. That's how you get a whole bunch of people killed for no good reason, both on your side and theirs. Furthermore, Hosea was unarmed, with his back turned, and he was scared. Shooting him like that was not only cowardly, but straight-out decietful. That was an evil act.
I forgot but I mean damn Hosea was the leader of a violent gang
Milton was a manager in a violent corporation that regularly went beyond the law to enforce the interests of ruch folks. Even if he weren't, that escalation didn't do anything but escalate a conflict that could've been resolved with no bloodshed at all if he'd been smart or decent about it.
Didn’t he >!try to kill Abigail!
He >!kidnapped her during the train heist in the Beaver Hollow chapter. It's been a while since I've played, but I don't recall him trying to kill her, I think it may have just been a ploy to draw out the gang from hiding or to kill Arthur specifically by holding her hostage at Van Horn. IIRC it was all in response to the gang's continued activity but I'd need to read the wiki/play the game again to be sure.!<
I will.
Nah, Milton was the good guy. He’s trying to lock up murderers and thieves. The gang haven’t been the Robin Hood-types they used to be for years. They’re just outlaws by the time of RDR2.
he executed an unarmed and harmless old man in cold blood. thats borderline KGB shit right there
>harmless old man You mean one of the leaders of a very dangerous gang of outlaws in the middle of a bank heist gone bloody?
he had been taken captive, disarmed and was held at gunpoint. Them they shoved him into the gunfight and executed him in cold blood. If thats not a crime i dont know what is.
It is a crime, sure. So is everything Hosea has done. Calling him a harmless old man is a bit of an understatement.
A sick unarmed old man who was cooperating.
He did? Who’d he kill? I don’t remember 💀
have you played the game at all? 💀💀 >!Hosea!<
Who was a criminal
Who was disarmed and captured
They were never really were Robin Hoods. And them robbing rich people was never about social justice, it was just because they had more money to be taken lol . At the end of the day it’s just an excuse for their own selfish greed and lack of regard for society and there’s a big difference between mere theft and robbery, these guys terrorized so many innocent people, killed innocent civilians. Also I noticed theres always been this exaggeration of how many people actually saw outlaws as Robin Hood’s. Like when it comes to the likes of those like the James younger gang were there people who sympathized with them and wanted to think of him as a Robin Hood? ( mostly former confederate buckwackers) Yes but that was only a small minority of people. The vast majority of people saw them as scum and wanted them dead. Also I think some people just take things the wrong way, like being fascinated by these figures does not mean you admire or condone their actions. I always thought it was weird to call people like this “folk hero’s “ when only such a small minority actually saw them as hero’s.
it kinda makes sense. Milton worked for a private company. his boss could still hold him accountable and they answered to the highest payer. basically glorified bounty hunters for hire. by the time ross was in charge he was a government agent. and well zero oversight or caring is their MO. long as they can push the paper that says they did good thats all they are about.
As long as John didn’t cause trouble, Milton would have let him live his life.
Milton? The man who shot an unarmed elderly man to prove a point and fired a machine in a home full of women and kids? I just can't see it. Early game Milton maybe, but not a Milton who survives Arthur and Abigail. The only federal agent in the series who'd actually leave John alone was Fordham because he was a real one.
You talk about Hosea like he wasn’t one of the founding and most crucial member of the gang. And also take into account the women and Jack had multiple chances to leave, yet they didn’t. Yes, Milton is the bad guy, but only because we see him through the gangs eyes.
Seriously, if a group of people came into my town, murdered half of its inhabitants and robbed everything they could see. I don't think I would mind the police using that kind of force
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After the end of the main story, the gang had dissolved and Dutch was a ghost, so Milton had got what he wanted. He did the horrible things he did because he was angry that the rest of the gang kept refusing to give up Dutch. John agreed to help get rid of Dutch. Milton would’ve left him alone because of that. All he wanted was Dutch, nothing more (as long as the other gang members didn’t cause trouble).
Milton would have 100% let John live out his life on the ranch and honored the deal. He was interested in society and order and John had fallen into that line. He probably would have bragged about at the office how he even got a former outlaw to finish off what remained of a famous outlaw gang.
Fordham is not a real one lmao If your talking about him not “arriving” to John’s deathbed that is untrue he is there. The myth is false https://www.reddit.com/r/reddeadredemption/comments/kizf3e/fordham_was_present_in_beechers_hope_assault_by/
You mention all this as if Hosea wasn’t the one responsible to literally plan all the heists and robberies of the gang and helped many criminals and as if the home full of women and children wasn’t also packed with a bunch of deadly outlaws who work with them. Sure, it’s still questionable, but at least he doesn’t shoot a harmless family man who is willing to give up his outlaw life and past.
Hosea was an outlaw
Milton wouldn't have even given John that mission at all, he would have been resourceful enough to to track Dutch with his own resources
Ross was more sadistic imo. Milton was more about doing his duty, even giving the gang a chance to run away (more than once in Arthur's case). Ross, however, reveled in tormenting John, gloating over the power he had and then killing John anyway. Also Ross' first words (chronologically) were no less of him threatening infant Jack.
Ross betrayed John. Milton, even when he had chances to kill Arthur and others didn't, and tried to get them to turn in Dutch. I think Milton might have let the rest of the gang just disappear after bringing in Dutch.
Milton 100% saw the rest of the gang as victims of Dutch. His talk with Arthur about how being indoctrinated by Dutch was a story as old as time really characterizes that in him.
And in the end, he was right about seeing them that way. They truly were Dutch's victims in the end.
Absolutely, Dutch is a steriotypical cult leader and he very deliberately targeted vulnerable children and down and outs
Plot Twist: Ross didn't betray John, he was going after Uncle and John got in the way.
Red Harlow was who Ross was truly after
With his terminal lumbago it was really more of a mercy killing.
I see it as cowardly, Ross knew he wouldn’t stand a chance against pre-lumbago uncle
Ross, he said mean things to jack like: "enjoy fishing while you still can" imagine saying that to a kid thats a monster.
The foreshadowing lmao,man got his shit pushed back whilst fishin Edit:he was murdering ducks
He was duck hunting
My bad..I just remembered him being by water lol
Dude I just emptied my whole mag into his balls in that mission. Pure satisfaction.
I killed his wife too, fuck him. I wish I could have told him before ending him
Like everyone else is saying, definitely Ross. Milton went easy on the gang at first and gave all of them, accept Dutch, chance after chance to run away and live like normal people. Only when shit really hit the fan did he start pushing them (St Denis bank robbery). In his eyes, they clearly weren’t ever going to stop and so he needed to raise the stakes. Ross full on betrayed John. At least Milton was always clear about his intentions with the gang. Ross was a conniving snake and was never upfront about his full intentions. He kidnapped a mans wife & son, used him as his own personal hitman, let him reunite with said wife & son and let him think it was all over, and then killed him in cold blood unexpectedly just because. Yeah, Milton was a bad man, but so were a lot of the gang members. In RDR2 both sides were bad in their own way (if we look at them as a whole). Both sides had killers and manipulators. Both sides became unhinged. In RDR1, John was just doing what he had to do for his family and he was taken advantage of and murdered.
also milton gave dutch multiple chances to turn himself in without any trouble. ross went for the kill each time.
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Definitely Ross.
Ross, and it's not even close. I haven't even played RDR1, yet I know what that piece of shit did to John and his family.
Ross was a conniving POS, I think Milton bought into Dutch’s bravado, he should’ve taken them out in chapter 2 instead of playing nice
Ross. At least Milton is only interested in arresting Dutch. If Milton ordered John to hunt down his former gang members, he will leave John after Dutch was killed. Milton will not betray John unless John causes trouble.
Ross. Motherfucker just couldn't let sleeping dogs lie. After Dutch finally died whether John pulled a trigger or not the debt should've been paid. At that point Sadie and Charles were long gone and more than likely weren't very wanted considering they were the last two to join the Gang save for Micah but he had a reputation beforehand so he was already very much wanted
Edgar Ross by a long shot. Milton is more neutral than evil, while Ross had a twisted sense of justice and he was ruthless, using a man and then butchering him in front of his own family (the family escaped but he didn't care if they saw it or not) while still talking about morality speaks about how evil Edgar Ross was. He did not care about justice really, he just wanted recognition, be the hero, even if he had to rat his way onto it.
To be fair John has killed hundreds. Like imagine the police finally catching some mass shooter and letting him go because he’s “changed”
Fair enough. The point here is that Ross is no different from him. He's sadistic from the moment he said "enjoy your fishing kid while you still can" to a kid.
Oh, I thought he was warning him about climate change...
Only thing that made Milton a villain was the games romantic view of outlaws, and I guess kidnapping Abigail at the end of the game. Ross was a coward who forced John to do Ross's job for him, then sends the army after him once John is nothing but a loose end, all while John was living the life of a rancher, rather than an outlaw. He also sent John to Mexico, which had the end result of the government getting overthrown, which while it wasn't 100% ross's fault, he probably also didn't give a single shit about it. These two characters aren't anywhere close to one another when it comes to morality.
Milton was far from a saint, and I would indeed call him a bad man, but I think he is far better than Ross. Milton gave the gang a couple of chances to either turn in Dutch or make themselves scarce before he returned, and he also seemed uncomfortable with Cornwall’s order to screw the law and bring in Dutch any means necessary. He seems hyper focused on his view of the law and how it’s upheld, to the point that he considers killing Mac and Hosea fair. He is a bad man, but you can see how his ideals motivate his actions, and he is consistent with that, even if you disagree with him. I honestly don’t think he would’ve done John dirty like Ross did.
I really wish I could live in the fairy tale land some players believe in where the man who [taunted Arthur about torturing Arthur's friend to death](https://youtu.be/6UUBjX3kTzM?t=638) was making a totally sincere offer to let him go free and live happily ever after. [And how about the "give them to the count of five....NAH!"](https://youtu.be/jsgYFkATA30?t=125) If you can't trust this man who speaks in Villain-ese, who can you trust?
In the first video, he could have killed Arthur then-and-there. He could have killed him in the warehouse toward the end of the game. He plenty of opportunities. He also tried to get Dutch to surrender at Clemens point and he offered to let the rest of the gang to go free. The gang constantly refused. So we got to that point in the second video.
"taunted Arthur about torturing Arthur's friend to death" His friend was an outlaw and a murderer,and according to charles,both callender boys were a pair of menaces to society. "give them to the count of five....NAH!" He had enough from them,he has given them plenty of chances to run off,but they kept murdering and destroying everyone in their path. Also,how they can still care about children when they are literally murdering hundreds of lives. It's painful to say this,specially after hosea's death,but...agent milton was definitely fair with them.
Ross 100%, Milton is just following orders
Milton was just a guy doing his job and was strictly business, Ross had a personal vendetta and hatred that clouded his judgement
It’s tough… I see lots of people saying Ross easily, but Milton did shoot Hosea in cold blood. Milton seemed to be more by-the-book and orthodox than Ross though- Ross seemed particularly unhinged.
I don't think it was cold blood Hosea was still a criminal and killer
Hosea was dead the moment he got caught anyway, at least he got put out of his misery quick instead of being interrogated and then hung.
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>filled his wife with bullets no the fuck he didn't lmfao play the game sir
Abigail was killed by Ross? I thought she died of a disease
Milton was only hired to bring down the Gang after they had shot up a ferry killing multiple civilians and robbing a train for hundreds of 1899 dollars in goods. Ross came into the picture blackmailing a man who hadn't committed a crime in a decade by kidnapping his family; largely for the purpose of seeking personal glory and just so a corrupt politician can boost his chances of being elected governor. Milton offered the gang numerous chances to disperse and walk free after everything they done with solely the exception of Dutch (duh), which is frankly the best deal they could've got seeing how it all turned out. Milton seems to actually believe in his ideals of society & civilization and has nothing personal beyond that, while Ross is clearly just out for his own interests. Do y'all forget that like the gang is a bunch of criminals? and not just like "stealing bread to feed the family" criminals like they murder people on the reg. Valentine, Strawberry, Rhodes. Some people deserved it, but a lot of others didn't. If anything, Milton went too light on them for being a bunch of murderers.
Milton played by the rules. He gave them multiple peace options and negotiations, and never killed any of them. Ross however, is a lying snake who promises peace negotiations then shoots down a father who had followed everything they said
Ross was just a plain asshole to everyone Milton at least seemed like he had a reason for what he was doing but Ross threatened John Marston to kill or capture Javier Escuella, Bill Williamson, and Dutch Van Der Linde. Ross then framed John by shooting Dutch’s corpse with John’s gun which then allowed Ross to go to Beacher’s Hope and gun down John the worst thing that comes to my mind for Milton would be trying to kill Arthur but even then he gave Arthur more chances to run away from Dutch and start a new life than he did for anyone else so Ross is worse
Believe it or not, Milton was fair with the gang, giving them multiple chances, more than they deserved. Milton only wanted Dutch, he didn't even want Arthur, just Dutch. But they kept pushing it and forced Milton's hand. Ross on the other hand wanted control and to completely eradicate the gang, betraying John even after hunting the last known members of the gang. Ross is corrupt, and Milton is fair
Ross operated in the bounderies of the law, but backstabbed john despite having made an agreement. Milton gave the gang the opertunity to hand over dutch and run off for a better life, but he executed Hosea in a bordeline KGB’esce fashion, meaning he *should* have gotten some form of trial and absolutley been demoted from authority.
Milton was just doing his job. Ross had a vendetta.
Ross by a mile. Milton seemed to possess some morals but Ross just uses everyone around him and then either throws them away or takes them out.
Even though his values were skewed, Milton I believe actually wanted to make the world a better place. Ross only cared about fortune and glory
I believe everyone feels a way about Ross because of the events of the first game but fail to take into account of what happens in the second. If Milton doesn’t get killed by the Van Der Linde gang, assuming that’s what they believe to have happened since they don’t know that it was Abigail that killed him specifically, I don’t think Ross kills John since that was essentially his vengeance for Milton. So as sad as I hate to admit it Ross had a right to treat John the way he did seeing as how Milton offered chances of freedom and only Micah took it which ultimately caused Milton’s death. I say all this to say I believe that it is a tie for Milton and Ross.
Ross for sure. Milton gave everyone chances and while who’s to say he wouldn’t have betrayed those who gave themselves in we know for a fact Ross did. Milton offered the gang (aside from Dutch) a chance to go free. Ross took Jon on a wild goose chase then came to his ranch and shot him dead with an army behind him. I really don’t think it’s close
Lumbago
Ross is the worst, but none of them is inherently evil I believe. They were simply products of their day and age. Ross compared to Milton and Fordman showed far less restraint and a lot more brutality, making him more unlikable. Actually I think it goes Fordman>Milton>Ross (best to worst).
Ross easily
Ross was way worse due to the fact that Milton was hunting down dangerous murderers and thieves while Ross was forcing a somewhat peaceful man to take up arms again and start killing his way back to his family just to end up slaughtering him anyway
Ross. 100 fucking percent Ross.
Ross
Ross
This ain’t Even a discussion I haven’t even played rdr1 and I already know it’s that prick Ross
The apprentice always becomes more evil than the master
Milton feels like a man with principles. Ross gets off on the power and status.
Which one is better? Horse shit or cow shit?
Milton was ruthless, but Ross was just plain cruel.
Ross. Milton was just doing his job and I feel like a lot of people forget that the Van der Linde gang is filled with murderers.
If you only played RDR2 it’s Milton, but if you played the first game definitely Ross. He kidnapped John’s family to do the government’s dirty work and when John completed his mission Ross still screws him over.
Ross 100%. With Milton you can tell it’s purely ideology, but Ross seems to fucking enjoy it.
Milton was doing his job. He only wanted Dutch and gave the other gang members many chances to leave and start fresh somewhere else. Ross became the man he was because of the trail of destruction the van der linde gang left everywhere they went.
Ross by far the way he lit that cigar and laughed after he tricked John into doing his job for him and using John’s hopes and dreams of being a family man and being left alone and forgetting that life ever happened against him
Milton seemed to actually only want Dutch. He was just doing his job. Ross used John and his love for his family as a pawn to do his job for him, and then killed him when he outlived his usefulness to Ross. Tragic to see Jack follow his father’s footsteps but it was great to see Ross meet his demise to Jack.
I see Ross as a better villain, he had more build up and was an ass to John in rd1
I think people forget milton killed hosea in cold blood in the middle of saint denis and threatened jack. Milton didnt care about casualties and quite liteally took over an entire town just to kill the van der linde gang. Yes he gave the gang two chances but he at the end of the day killed hosea and told a child that he killed his uncle.
It’s like saying killing Jesse James irl was a bad action and they should be shunned for it, Milton was just doing his job of eradicating mass murdering psychopaths(Dutch proven to be one) while Ross was a manipulative dick who betrayed John after he did his dirty work. If you look at the gang from an outside eye RDR 2’s events justifies more than eradicating the gang whereas in RDR 1 poor John did not deserve what came to him at all because he legitimately earned his freedom.
Ross was actually just a monster with a raging hard on for violence against the Vand der Linde gang. Milton was someone who actually offered redemption to everybody except their boss, he was kind of a good person actually.
People who played rdr 1
Ross, at the VERY least, Milton keep his words, he gave the gang many chances to turn back but Dutch just pushed the gang deeper and deeper into abyss. Ross forced John to kill former gang members then killed John, a complete coward and liar. If Milton was the one making John go after the gang members, he would've let John live his live afterwards as long as John cause no more trouble.
Yes.
Milton gave the gang multiple chances to peacefully surrender. Ross sucks.
Ross because he actually killed a protagonist
I feel like Ross was less forgiving because he saw what happened to Milton so he just decided to be ruthless to the rest of the gang.
100% Agent Ross. Milton was just doing his job in a jerk kind of way, Ross betrayed and killed John.
I'd say both as despite Milton doing his job but at times he pushed it to far were executed Hosea in the middle of the street and was unarmed and surrendered. Ross was another case as he was basically like Milton just doing but to things to extreme, as he kidnapped or in his word detained his family from there without a warrant to force john to hunt his former gang members and when he was done killed John. BUt if Milton was in Ross's place in RDR1 he would've let john live his life as in the second game he gave the gang a chance to disolve peacefully
Ross. He had John killed.
Ross easily. However iirc while he is a dick, the mayor actually ordered him to hunt down John after freeing him for his election campaign promises. I read a theory that had the government not wanted John dead, Ross would’ve left him alone.
Ross is low honour, Milton is high
Ross was a total asshole.
Ross didn't need to backstab Marston. Milton was doing his job.
Milton only wanted Dutch, Ross basically slaughtered everyone else.
Ross was definitely worse as I got more satisfaction killing him than Milton. Why was Ross worse? 1. He had John killed after John fulfilled his end of the bargain hunting down the remnants of Dutchs gang. 2. He threatened Jack when he was a child...literally making a threat to a child is all kinds of messed up. 3. Milton clearly was keeping Ross in check but once Milton died Ross was able to be the evil bastard he is.
I mean to be honest. If there was a group of ruffians going around killing and stealing who they pleased. I think Ross and Milton would definitely be the good guys off told from their perspective.
Neither, they were both doing their job and doing it well
Milton is just doing his job and getting paid. Ross is doing his job and getting paid while being an asshole
They're both doing their jobs by trying to stop a gang of thieves and murderers. Sure, we may like all the van der linde gang members and wish them the best but the fact is sooner or later they have to pay for their deeds. Ross doesn't play clean but he's still the protagonist, like it or not. He lies to John Marston but hey, why does John Marston deserve not to be lied to? Both detectives get their hands dirty to fight crime, like it or not.
Ross cause at least Milton died in the prologue
Edgar Ross, I may be wrong, but if i remember correctly Milton gave at least one chance to the gang and one chance to Arthur before that. While Ross kidnapped john’s family and made him kill and/or deliver them to him and to archer Fordham. I don’t think that Milton would’ve done the same thing to Arthur as Ross has done to John aka >!betraying and killing him, even if he (still being a criminal in the past) did all of the work for Ross, and this is why I hate him more than Micah by the way
Milton because he love micah
100% Ross, Milton just wanted to kill/capture dutch at first but when the gang kept on killing and robbing he went after then too because he had no choice, Ross on the other hand hunted down the remaining gang members and brutally executed the one helping him
Flip a coin.
Im pretty sure theres just more bad people in rdr1
Milton was doing his job and gave the gang not one, but two warnings to give up and go live normally, and he died pretty much trying to defend himself from Arthur. Ross, however tracked down John long after he’d already given up his life in the gang like Milton would’ve wanted, kidnapped his family, forced him to hunt down and kill his old friends and even after John did everything Ross wanted, Ross just came in with the army to kill John, knowing fully well he isn’t a threat anymore. And when jack comes for revenge, Ross doesn’t even give an apology any sort of condolences, but threatens to kill jack too even though he didn’t do anything. TL;DR Milton was doing his job. Ross was a lying scumbag who manipulated John into killing his old friends.
Ion know man, i mean u guys been going around killing everytbing that moves maybe theyre righ u know
Micah
They’re both savage cunts
Both are the good guys. Ross is less good, essentially.
Ross, Milton was bad. But we know what went down in Red Dead Redemption. He just made John do all the dirty work.
Ross without a doubt! For me the worst in both of RDR games! Yeah even worse than Micah for me xD
Ross is worse, but I still don’t hate him as much as Milton. Milton already has one of those faces I like. The kind I like to punch
I hope its ross who is in charge of holding hostage of abigail and sadie in van horn 1899 instead of milton imagine ross died in rdr2 milton alive in rdr1 he would leave john alone after forcing Him to hunt down javier bill and dutch and not betray him
Ross was worse, at least agent Milton tried to give Arthur and the whole gang a chance at freedom and we can see that he kept his word by releasing Micah Bell and putting him under some kind of "protection" for dismantling the band from within. Why do you think Micah spent 8 years doing bad things and right after he died the FBI went to find out who killed him? Probably at that moment Edgar Ross saw the perfect opportunity to put an end to the disbanded Van der Linde gang, and Marston was the most likely to take orders because of what he could lose if he didn't play along with the Bureau
Ross was always dishonest while Milton never lied about anything. He even casually admitted who the rat was.
Ross
Doesn't Milton torture Strauss to death while in custody.
Milton was far more professional at doing his job imo. Up to certain points at least.
Micah ofc
Ross is the worst, he forces John to hunt down and kill his former gang then doesn’t even have the decency to go by his word and leave him alone, a man who goes back on his word isn’t a man at all. Milton at least have the gang chances and I must admit I feel he would actually stick to his word of letting the other gang members go if they have him Dutch, as he said he doesn’t want to kill all of them, he recognises they were all lost and Dutch lead them astray. Cut off the leader and it’s over
Milton was an idealistic who had his own sense of Justice and wasn’t afraid of delivering it to those he deemed to far gone. Milton wasn’t afraid of killing the whole gang, but he through his own view of justice deemed it appropriate to give the lesser members an opportunity to walk away. Even have them the chance to just turn in Dutch and move along. He could have killed Arthur by the river, but he chose to send a message instead. Could have rolled into their camp with 50 men strong, but gave the gang a chance. It wasn’t until he deemed the whole gang unworthy was when he started opening fire on all of them. Ross never planned on letting John live. From day one he was using him and had always planned on having him killed. Milton while still not a good man would have likely deemed John somewhat redeemed on the eyes of the law, but I imagine he’d have some agents keep an eye on John just in case he slipped up.
Agent Milton wasn’t afraid to do the work himself, he chased the gang with a decent amount of honor and was going to get the work done properly. Ross on the other hand had John do his dirty work then to hide his cowardice, shot John like a dog
Fordham
My opinion is that realistically, given the time and their objective; 1800’s tracking down a murderous gang of outlaws, Milton has patience rivalling a saint I mean the whole gang could have been exterminated in Clemons Point had he not been kind enough to offer EVERYONE but Dutch a new life, which to me is wayyyy more than fair to most of them. Ross seemed vindictive and like his career/accolades meant more than his morals. He knew John was docile at that point, not committing crimes and living life as a family man but the inkling of a possibility that John reverts to the outlaw life probably made Ol’ Ross shake in his boots so instead of possessing any sort of backbone he used and murdered him.. to me it’s a clear cut difference
Ross, had John do his dirty work just to kill him in the end.
It depends on the game. In my opinion Ross is worse than Milton in rdr1 and Milton is worse in rdr2.
Necessary evil vs straight up evil
Ross, for reasons that others have already stated. Milton gave the gang a chance to turn on Dutch in exchange for the chance to live a normal life, free of crime. I'm inclined to believe that if Milton had sent John on his assignment instead of Ross, Milton would've honoured his word and let John live peacefully. In Milton's eyes, John would've earned his freedom as a man of civilisation.
I wish we have police officers like them. Make scumbags to kill each other.
The thing that I think a lot of people are missing is the fact that Ross was also a part of Milton’s fight against the gang. He witnessed Milton give the gang countless of chances to live normal lives and he witnessed that same gang kill him. I’m not saying that Ross was a better man than Milton. I’m just saying he didn’t want to risk suffering the same fate.
Milton while cruel mostly had mercy on the gang a multitude of times and was just doing his job while Ross went against a deal and shot marathon like a dog he’s the Micah bell of rdr1
Milton tried to stop the leader of an outlaw gang. Ross hunted down and killed a farmer
Edgar Ross literally played with John Marston like a puppet, almost the entire time. Andrew Milton had honor, he didn't want to kill all of the gang members, he just wanted Dutch, and the only reason he wants Dutch is because he got an order. He even gets mad at us at the end of Chapter 3 for not turning on Dutch because he would have to kill us too in that case lol. I really respect Milton, he is just doing his job, he doesn't enjoy it. But Ross, he is different. He just used John to do his work, made him get Bill, Javier and finally Dutch. And even after that, he didn't let John go. He came for him and killed him anyway even after everything John has done. Milton makes Arthur an offer in the early game, around chapter 2. He says that if Arthur give Dutch to the Pinkertons, Arthur and the others will be free to go, especially he promised Arthur's safety. Of course Arthur refused it because he is loyal af, but I think if Arthur accepted that offer Milton would keep his word and let them go.
Canonically speaking, Ross is worse. Milton at least gave the gang 2 or 3 chances to turn themselves and/or Dutch in. Outlaws did what they do best. So extreme scenarios call for extreme measures. Ross is a man in a position of power that bent the rules how they best benefited him. That alone is enough in my opinion to cement him as evil.