By - Vikturus22
From my (limited) knowledge there's a few things you should/can do.
The first is to document absolutely everything. Make a memo of the "jokes" and how they're making you feel. Include dates and times of the incidents.
Advise your HR team of the issue so there's a paper trail your intentions. Given that this is your manager it's definitely important to get HR involved to protect against potential backlash.
You should then advise him that this is not acceptable. This could be an email or a discussion. HR may be able to facilitate this. You'll need to be clear about what the behavior is that is making you uncomfortable and it's affect on you.
Once it's been made clear how it's affecting you if he continues then it's clear cut harrassment as he's been asked to stop and has continued.
It's a difficult process, will take some courage and it won't be easy but if you don't make it clear to him how his behavior is impacting you then it will continue.
Worksafe has guidance on this and includes forms for making complaints which you can use if you need them.
this is good advice, make sure you document what he has said. This does seem like a good case for bullying
HR will be sorry to hear that OP is resigning.
HR will be very sorry to find a constructive dismissal lawsuit.
Or you could change jobs.
ETA: Clearly, OP shouldn’t have to change jobs. But the hurdles they’re going to have to go through are a massive burden, and moving on, instead of working somewhere that tolerated bad behaviour, may be the more palatable option.
If he’s happy at the job other than a cunty manager, he shouldn’t have to leave. The manager should just not be a dickhead.
"Should" doesn't help them though
Don't put the oness on the victim to rectify wrongdoings done on them, thats not a very fair society.
they shouldn't have to do that, dont let dickheads get away with being dickheads
My direct manager used to make very blunt and even rude critics of other people's work. I knew this person good enough to know that the intention was not to make people feel bad but just out of ignorance. So once he made a comment to me I asked for an apology and had a chat about empathy and wearing other peoples shoes before commenting like that. I do not remember any more comments like that so I guess the talk sank in. You might not be as lucky with your manger though, I’d recommend having a log of everything in case at some point you need it for reference.
It maybe more difficult as I have known him for a longer period. He is the type of person who "will" listen but dismiss anything you say immediately and gaslight. I try to have conversations about it and its even come to the point where the new guy ( who is a friend of mine from a former workplace I got hired here ) has said to me in private that he is a dick and childish. My friend (Lets call him Joe ) even said he would have left the second day if I wasnt there.
Why haven't you found a new job away from this toxic individual?
Dont worry im looking currently. I am also getting a trial in a new role in the company upstairs doing admin (previous jobs i did were heavily admin/customer service jobs)
Silence. Prolonged uncomfortable silence with eye contact. Just look at him until he gets uncomfortable and goes away.
Also, document everything with calendar entries of dates you were harassed or bullied
I agree with this too. It makes the person stop and consider what they’re actually saying and is the most awkward feeling ever.
Or i could remind him he is approaching 40 and still acting childish in a position of authority. He does this to others as well (they wont say anything because they on visas etc) should i talk to the manager above him to see if he maybe able to resolve it? Or should i be blunt with the bully?
It seems you aren't the best at keeping your cool when you get emotional, so don't talk to him about it agin. Report to HR.
In the past i have blown up at him. He doesn’t get it and still carries on
>still acting childish
The word you need to use is "unprofessional".
I’ve dealt with managers/people like this before. You gotta start acting like it doesn’t bother you and it will stop. Literally the reason they do it is to get a reaction out of you. Start saying things like “seriously this is so old” but you got to drag out the seriously. They will be confused and think you are calling them old (your not but am) and start saying things like “that was so yesterday” or “that was so last week” when they say something you don’t like but calmly. I take it this is an older guy? If you start saying phases they don’t understand they get confused and end up shutting up. They think you are calling out their behaviour as an old person and get upset. But you got to remain calm. When your manager says something like “is that all you did” say something like yea I stopped for a nap and if they hit you up say sorry joking joking Yano like you were asking if that’s all I did for the day. This is how I combated bullying in my last workplace till I got out. I found it works, keeps you sane and you get a kick out of seeing them so confused!
Edited to add ANY time the manager annoyed me or tried to wind me up out would come the “this is so old” comment or “so last week”. AND this is not something I would normally say so the confusion was great. The nap comment I used a lot, worked great. They have no idea how to combat it and eventually leave you alone to find someone else to pick on
If head office dosnt sort it consider leaving. It’s always worth asking yourself “what’s more important to me, money or (mental) health?”
Seduce his dad, that'll show him.
Contact HR and/or find a new job.
Sadly no advice to give but I would be absolutely raging. As someone who loves to joke about, there isn't much that makes me more angry than someone laughing AT me in a rude way.
Almost irrationally so.
So sorry you're having to deal with this shit.
>made fun of me being adopted
That is as offensive as racism & other forms of bigotry and, for me (also adopted) is one time where it stops being bants/pisstaking and is well and truly arsehole territory.
Start doing the written record/HR/threaten grievance thing. Don't be afraid to secretly record conversations, and don't tell anybody else with a connection to the office that you're doing it in case word gets back to him.
Emails are a perfect place to record this stuff. Use gmail, create an account just for the purpose of writing down employment stuff, email that address from that address. It can be possible to accuse someone of faking a written record, a gmail account is a bit harder.
One tip: Don't tell him to stop making fun of you, tell him to stop being unprofessional and childish.
edit: Just read you're leaving. Depending on whether or not you care about your reputation at the place you're leaving that may free you up to retaliate. Definitely start the HR process at a minimum.
Laugh and flip him the bird; make sure you are smiling and laughing when you do it; because that is the point - to participate in the mutual piss-take.
Ive done this too many times now but it still keeps going. I know him well enough to tell him to fuck off (and do so openly in front of everyone) and not get any crap for it. But it still keeps going, ive only been here for 7 weeks (him double that) and i already want to look elsewhere because of the crap. Yes other managers do it too there, but they don’t mean it at your expense and actually help you immediately where as he just does his fucking reel and keeps laughing while walking away
I have no more words then.
I had a similar relationship with a manager level person (not in my line but still a 'manager'). We gave each other endless amounts of shit, to the point of when ppl from other offices would be around we would kind of go out of our way to yell something offensive across the office - to be clear we have respect for one another, its just soemthing that we grew into after working with one another for a while.
If its not your thing; then just take him to the side and say 'this is fun but kinda not my thing and makes me uncomfortable'; if he is not a dickhead then he will hopefully say 'no worries, sorry about making you feel uncomfortable' and that will be it.
Best of luck,
So what you are saying is you both take the piss and you are holding a grudge?
Others have given you some good advice in keeping record and taking this higher in the chain.
Reading through your comments, it sounds like this guy feeds off of your having an emotional reaction, so I wouldn’t bother trying to talk to him. If he talks to you, try your best to keep a straight face and don’t show him how much this upsets you.
I’m sorry this is happening to you, and bar all this not working, I’d think about looking for another position, life is too short to deal with bullies.
Had something similar in a job. Learned not to respond and make my face completely blank then stared at the person (that point between the eyes) until he got really uncomfortable and realised everyone else was looking at him too. Behaviour stopped quickly after that.
punch him in the fucking face. lol
Give a hand gesture of your own back when he is trying to wind you up. Bullies thrive on not giving shit back. Do it back, just at much lower level than that shit head.
The guy is a bully and thrives on being able to wind you up and not get any shit back from you. Do NOT take it lying down. If appealing to higher authority doesn't make him stop, then look for another job. Preferably at a peak time in the year that will leave him in it. Agree to take on a bunch of projects leading up to your resignation and then dump them on his desk and do the same 'reel in' gesture. Say: "Careful what you fish for" flip him the middle finger and walk out.
If you want more revenge; then I reccomend: Look on the internet for an embarrassing picture of an micropenis. Photoshop a namecard on it that says "Hi! My name is [Managers name] print it off and place it on the fridge in the break room.
Print of a number of them and with different jokes at his expense and place them around the office so he's still finding them. Maybe even include one of them with a fishing hat.
The key takeaway here is you don't have to put up with his shit, no job is worth the unprofessional crap he throws at you.
Don’t contact HR, they’re there to protect the business not you. I would just ask for a quiet word with the person and set clear expectations on what’s a joke or not.
That is bad advice. HR are there to protect the business, but the best interests of employees and a business align more often then you expect. If a manager is making a hostile workplace environment then it is the business's obligation to sort that out. If the employee is in a position where they could lodge a person grievance then this is bad news for the business. This is exactly the kind of situation where a business's best interests and the employee's align.
“Hostile workplace environment” made a joke about work ethic, PG get laughed down the road. Also it’s a one on one joke, good luck with HR lol 😂
Sure, if this was a one-off. But judging by OP's post it is a set of repeated behaviour. The person making the joke is not the one to decide whether other people are allowed to find it offensive.
OP needs to set boundaries around this kind of behaviour and if it continues then that is absolutely grounds for a personal grievance.
“One on one” if no one heard the joke, in a off work site setting likely one on one by the sounds as well. One on one in person not email or chat is the hardest possible scenario for a complaint especially when it’s not serious misconduct.
Uh no multiple people heard it. Others laughed too
Fantastic, you have a good opportunity to document the interaction of you bringing it up with the person. An email or etc is recorded vs a in person conversation(good for setting expectations in first instances etc) but in front of others you can word your feelings and subject it appropriately, likelihood is they will reply to you via email vs in person one on one.
I would also assume(you can correct me) you told this individual you’re adopted?
Yes because it came up (tldr adopted day i was born so dont know real parents) and someone at company from country i was adopted. When we were at the computer store he was told this by a friend of ours to push my buttons, and he said something vulgar about them. I was so pissed off i left him and friend at store forcing them to walk back or get a cab
I've heard plenty of stories of the asshole manager being fired as a result of complaints. Often his boss knows and wants a way to be rid of them. OP didnt mention if they're in public or private business, but if its public sector they should treat it pretty seriously even if it's the first complaint
If you realised how hard it is to “fire” someone you would realise those stories are likely all shit.
If OP has solid evidence of bullying behaviour/harassment from the manager, then "protecting the business" *would* be helpful to OP.
No decent HR wants a public spat and allegations of harassment by senior staff.
(However I would add that if you have one, union should always be your first port before HR because they are on your side first and foremost, while HR is only on your side if it ultimately benefits the business)
Yeah, from the description I imagine “bullying” would be a bit of a reach unless there’s documentation of bringing it up etc.
I imagine it’s just an uneducated leader on appropriate conduct, which can usually be easily sorted.
Depending on your organisation I recommend you get HR on the phone.
I wont name them. Not yet anyway, I still work there and DO NOT want to escalate it further until speaking with him tomorrow. I want to say ( i'm the type of person who if someone pisses me off ill tell em straight to there face and not hold a grudge ) that i was fucked off with that shit and to stop it. I will re iterate it tomorrow that if it don't get knocked off asap that I will go to HR and get a formal complaint going?
Asking for advice on how to properly handle a situation is talking behind his back, even though no names or companies have been mentioned? Why is there always someone that has to be a complete dick.
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Write an article in stuff about what its like to work for Sam Uffindell.
OK, you need to set boundaries "I do not like it when you do that and I want you to stop". There is no valid reason for anyone, let alone a manager, to behave like that.
Then you need to document when and what he does.
Then you need to escalate to HR, and be factual. "Manager did X at time, I asked them to stop, they laughed at me", etc.
HR has an obligation to have safe working environments, and if they do not stop the manager's behaviour then they leave the business open to person grievances. I suggest you read up on some of the guidance on this topic.
What does your union have to say about this?
Have you tried quietly explaining to him that it's not kind, and politely asking him not to do it. Some people don't realise the impact of what they're doing.
Crikey... I'd start by having a conversation with him to let him know his behaviour is not acceptable to you. If he's not your line manager then it would pay to get your manager involved in this process. Keep it informal but follow up with an email. If it happens again, go to his manager, and ask them to manage the situation. You could go this way initially but this way gets a paper trail started. In parallel, start keeping records of all the dates and times of incidents, including what was said. If you're with a union, get them involved now. Good luck, you shouldn't have to deal with people like that at work.
Start recording the audio of your interactions, phone in pocket with voice recorder running.
Even better phone in breast pocket with lens poking out and record video.
Writing it down is all good and something you can start with but can be disregarded as hearsay or emotionally skewed, but if it is ever challenged and you say you have audio/video evidence of these interactions you'll have arseholes puckering up big time.
He sounds like a narcissist
That sounds a lot like my former boss.
To be honest even just telling him that you're looking for another job because of his shit behaviour might be enough of a reality check to make him apologize and pull his head in. It all depends if he really is being mean or if he thinks it's just banter (either way it's bullying though).
Don't worry, by the sounds of things once the Slough-Swindon merger is finalised, the Swindon branch manager will become his superior and make him redundant on Comic Relief day.
You need to subscribe to r/managedbynarcissists
The only thing to do is become the most boring employee ever. Do not react to anything. Just say yes, not, or ask for clarification on work tasks. Redirect conversation back to work when they try to fish for information or make it personal.
If he claims to just be joking, ask him to explain the joke. Keep peeling the onion until he has to either admit the offensiveness at its root, or just get fed up and realise it's not enjoyable for him if this is how you respond.
But also, go to HR. Mention incidents with other employees too. While they may prefer to let him drive *you* out rather than address it, the maths change when he's the reason why they can't hang on to *multiple* employees. Especially in this job market.
In any case, document everything (and feel free to be obvious about doing so).
Been at a toxic workplace for years and tried to make the situation better. It is futile!
My honest advise - get out as soon as you can!
Even for a job not as good.
Your mental health and quality of life will benefit more than any money is worth!
It is scary but in hindsight you will see that it is the best call you ever made.
For reference: I did leave without a new job as all applications did fail.
It was my bitterness that did ruin all interviews.
After I left the toxic workplace and recovered a bit I got job offers as if it was nothing.
Be very careful involving HR at any stage, they do not have your best interests at heart. Especially if it's public sector HR, they are highly trained sociopaths that will protect their manager, themselves and the organisation.
As soon as you approach them, they will view you as the problem. They will minimise it, make you feel crazy and pretend to care.
Talk to a lawyer and save yourself the pain of the bad faith, internal mediation meetings they will put you through.
You will need to at least endure one but be prepared. Document and record, everything. Ask questions without emotion and pretend you are talking to a robot. Because you are.
Workplace bullying is a deeply engrained cultural issue in NZ and the majority of HR departments serve as a key enabler. We are the worst place in the world for it, for a reason.
Just leave. Now is the easiest time to find a new job. You can use coworkers for references.
Kick him in the nuts, that's will slow him down a bit.
File a PG, they should find that hilarious.
Fuck his dad