Viewership is still in the hundreds of thousands. Not Stranger Things numbers but I don’t think that qualifies as “hardly anyone”.
**edit**
A lot of you don’t seem to understand the game Marvel/Disney is playing with these shows. For one they make crazy money off their movies, theme parks, and merchandise. These shows cost pocket change to them and are way safer investments than if they were doing movies for each character. This way they can get origin stories out of the way, and introduce these characters down the road in other shows/movies without lots of backstory or exposition. Those folks who want to learn more about a character could go back and watch their show and those that don’t, won’t have to. Another thing is that the target demographics are going to be different for some of these projects as the MCU continues to grow. Some of these shows like Ms Marvel are geared more for the kids now who will be growing up with this stuff to enjoy. As they have always done they are laying foundations piece by piece that will last for a long time because to them it’s all about the long game. They will always have giant success in between as well with things like Thor coming up.
people showing up to complain about how 'woke' a franchise is despite it being 'woke' since before they were born. we see it in Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the rings, Marvel, etc. people who pretend to be fans but completely miss the underlying message of these franchises. they can see an entire room full of different aliens and theyre fine but if too many humans arent white they get upset for some reason.
They did the same about Capt. Marvel when Brie insulted them. Most people don't even know what WOKE means or even where it came from. It was a saying years ago to mean you understand another cultures struggles. That's it! It has been distorted to mean anti-white which it never was. I ignore the ignorance of people using the word now. That being said, I like the show but admit it's a little dry and I'm a minority. It was bound to happen with so many shows. Just know one show or movie bleeds into another so missing this may cause a gap in a future movie or show.
>They did the same about Capt. Marvel when Brie insulted them.
The worst part is that it wasn't an insult and it had nothing to do with *Captain Marvel*.
Brie Larson brought up her own (and others') disappointment that ratings of some recent movies at that time such as *A Wrinkle in Time* focused mainly on the reviews of older white males who would not have experienced the movie the same way as more diverse viewers would have. She suggested that other groups could have identified more with the story and characters.
She specifically said more than once in that interview:
"I'm not trying to take any seats away from the table. I'm just suggesting that we add more seats for more opinions."
I'm quoting from memory, but it was basically that message.
Unfortunately, people completely changed that message and thanks to the trends of the internet, nobody even knew what they were angry about. They were just spreading the message that Brie Larson was trying to crap all over white guys and only cared about being woke. It even became a "totally legitimate quote" that she didn't want males to watch *Captain Marvel* because it wasn't for them.
I personally think there's 2 problems.
There's a fairly large group of people on that side of the argument and you're right that part of them are the biased and terrible people that makes up problem #1.
But problem #2 is that a portion of those people jump on the bandwagon and hate on someone without knowing the actual story. People need to stop believing stories without doing their own research. Whether it's about a celebrity's opinion, what dog to get or about a medical issue. Just take 5 minutes and research something so you're actually bringing an intelligent side to the discussion.
I welcome people being critics and suggesting what might have been cooler or more interesting in a story. But when you have nothing to say other than "This person sucks", it's usually the case that you either have a childish obsession with hating others or you're just spouting something that you heard from someone else.
("You" referring to the relevant person in the scenario, of course. Not you, the Redditor I'm replying to.)
EXACTLY! I just recently watched "This Changes Everything" which is about women in Hollywood, both in front of and behind the cameras, and how much bias there has been over the years. It felt like common sense to me watching it as a woman, but it still provided a ton of data to back up the disparities for women in Hollywood, one of which is who the main critics are for movies and TV.
This Situation with Captain Marvel actually led Rotten Tomatoes to shut down because the gatekeepers were bombing the film weeks before it even came out. She knew that the film would have a harder time simply due to the fact that it passes the Bechdel Test, something even Wonder Woman couldn't do. Brie also refused the original Ms. Marvel costume (as she should) and went for the more logical costume for a soldier- which of course meant she was completely covered.
same with BLM, pretty much anything that advocates for another cultures struggle is painted as an attack on white people, which sucks because it seems a lot of us are insecure enough to feed into that. the show isnt amazing but its marvel content and its not garbage so ill continue to enjoy it until the next shows/movies come out. they cant all be huge blockbusters and hopefully this doesnt deter disney from giving more minor characters their own series. but as im sure everyone is aware people are always gonna complain. i actually saw someone on facebook complaining about she-hulk like the character was just created... and when i explained that the character is like 40+ years old they blocked me.
For a while the popular posts were just "DAE not hate the sequels?" which got boring. Surely there must be something in the movies to joke about, or relate to anything else.
As the director of the much maligned movie *Ishtar* once said:
*"If all of the people who hate Ishtar had seen it, I would be a rich woman today."*
I saw it and I liked it.
I was just using an example that would be considered opposite end of the viewership spectrum. I’m sure Netflix wishes a lot of their other content did as well as Stranger Things too.
To be fair, there’s a LOT of content coming out right now. Obi Wan, Stranger Things, Ms Marvel and The Boys, all at the same time. It’s a lot to consume in a short amount of time. Plus I’ve seen **lots of people** say they prefer to wait until all episodes are out so they can binge watch.
Also Umbrella Academy, Only Murders in the Building, Westworld, The Old Man, and if you're a Trek fan, The Orville and Strange New Worlds.
It's a lot to have all at once.
>Plus I’ve seen **lots of people** say they prefer to wait until all episodes are out so they can binge watch.
This is a huge, commonly ignored point.
Also, I *just* saw Dr. Strange 2 and no way in hell am I consuming MCU content out of order.
Where are you getting those numbers from, or is it just a guess? Streaming services aren't exactly known for being open about their viewership numbers.
The show has felt like multiple competing shows going on at once.
The one that interested me the most was the lore and looking into the history of Kamala's family and Pakistan.
Then there is the slice of life show about a teenage girl. This was strongest in the first two episodes.
Finally, there is the typical MCU thing. DODC stuff mainly. Looks like that is how it is finishing out. I am pretty sure the finale will serve as the connective tissue to The Marvels movie.
If it where me? Make Episode 5 just a little longer and have Kamala go home and become Ms. Marvel. Then end it.
As a side note, I really like how the pieces of her costume each represent one of her adventures. Like that shows how her journey has shaped her into a hero.
I think the “slice of life” and family lore are both wrapped up in the larger narrative that this is a coming of age story from someone in a different culture. To predominantly white viewers like myself it can feel like story and writing decisions, but from the characters’ perspective it really is just part of life.
I’ve really enjoyed it so far even though I’m not necessarily the target audience, and I wish more people could enjoy things that are different from their perspective or when they aren’t the target audience too.
I think it was because it was advertised as a teen show by Disney. That turned older people off. That is a shame, because it is a good show.
It was almost as bad as what they did with John Carter.
It is good, but definitely a teen show. Like the humor level seems much more like a Pakistani Lizzy Maguire with powers. Which is fine, but I understand why older viewers aren’t loving it
>because it was advertised as a teen show by Disney
As a 32-year-old male in South Africa, I don't feel put off by something being referred to as a teen show or something that promotes women or any other group. I think Runaways and Cloak and Dagger were pretty decent, although I definitely think Cloak and Dagger was a better show.
Personally, I love almost everything about *Ms Marvel* so far. I do have some writing notes where I would have done something differently, but I do think that a lot of people are avoiding it when they should check it out a bit and if they don't like it at all, they don't have to watch more.
The Spider-Man MCU movies were well-received and the amount of teen stuff in this show is roughly the same as Peter Parker's life, in my opinion.
I've really enjoyed the new perspective on Pakistani immigrant culture, but the since they introduced the main antagonists the action pacing's felt waay off. Plus they're a pretty flat enemy without any intrigue or threat. I feel like it's working well as a coming of age story, but failing on the the comic book / mcu action side.
Legitimately they could have left the clandestines until next season. Have season 1 be entirely slice of superheroic life, her learning to control her powers and balance being a hero with being a person. Have a competent DDOC trying to force her to register under the Sokovia Accords be the primary villains. The slice of life aspect of the show is it's strong point right now
Yeah, it seems really jumbled.
Like...all the shit that went down at her brother's wedding and nobody is saying anything about it? Her best friend just found out she's got superpowers and isn't blowing up her phone 24/7 going "wtf, dude??" Now they're just in Pakistan so the characters we've established (Kamala's bff, her dad, her brother and SIL, and Bruno) are just out of the picture now and we're left with her, her pain in the ass mom and her hippie grandma.
It seems like they're just throwing a bunch of shit out there with no real narrative line going.
This is why you have 1 director do a show and not 3.
Honestly I’m loving each element of the show so far ( the family heritage/lore stuff being the weakest for me ) but I think the show needs one more episode for her to really become Ms Marvel and fight those random government people, as well as probably a show down with Cameron (is that how you spell it??), which will probably be a standard repeat of powers type thing but that’s fine, I guess. But you’re definitely right about her costume, I love how it’s part of her journey!
The least interesting part to me is the teenage stuff. I guess that is because I am older. It was really well done though.
Kamran. I hope they don't have to have a showdown.
I’m a guy ( so the dramatic romance portrayed in this show doesn’t apply to me ) in high school at the moment, so I can find enjoyment in watching a superhero ALSO be in highschool. Guess that’s the fun with so many different projects, everyone gets something.
But I’m guessing there’ll be some drama in the last episode which causes Kamram and Kamala to fight. It’ll be kinda generic so I’m afraid the last episode will be forgettable.
Also, this is kind of random, but I wished in superhero IP’s the actual struggles of high school (studying, tests, grades,) were portrayed more commonly.
I agree actually with your last point. That may not be my thing, but, there should be enough diversity to appeal to different groups of people. I thought that was what Ms. Marvel was going to be at first.
Eh to be fair, most people don’t want to watch people struggling at school. I’m fine with how it is, but I would welcome that little bit extra content.
'hey we're the red daggers'
\*immediately half of them get killed\*
i'll guess they're a major part of whatever comic she came from but here they're a big nothing
Honestly this show will have a constant viewing over the years I mean
Indian and Pakistani people will watch it for many more years beacuse it is so culturally accurate
The show largely follows the comics. Which I felt did a good job on highlighting the parallels of immigrant kids or first generation kids of immigrants having to put on “multiple masks” for people outside their culture and within, while trying to balance everything.
I find it takes the themes of spider-man’s early days where he’s trying to be both Peter Parker and Spider-Man and where the expectations of a super hero can conflict with the expectations of a good student/boyfriend/nephew.
Ms Marvel takes that and adds a layer of an first generation immigrant and shows the conflict of expectations of being a “good Muslim girl” (or insert any culture) can conflict other societal expectations.
While I agree about Treasure Planet, it's a little bit different since you'd have to pay to see that in theaters whereas Disney+ people get Ms. Marvel for free.
It just doesn't resonate with me. I can see it resonating with tweens and teens, but Marvel needs to figure out if that's worth losing the adult viewership for.
For real, I’ve watched every episode Wednesday morning before lunch because I’m excited about the story. Seems like they are just shitting on something THEY don’t like and are confused how the world works, because other people like it and that just doesn’t make sense to them.
It has had considerably lower viewership than the other shows. This is because of two factors.
1. Blatant racism/Islamophobia, people don't want to watch because they "can't relate" or it's "not made for them" I disagree but it's still a reason.
2. The stupidest marvel decision ever, to put a Disney show streaming at the same time as Obi-Wan Kenobi, one of the most looked forward to star wars shows. The next marvel show isn't until August with I Am Groot and She Hulk. They could have pushed it back and raised viewership but they bit themselves in the foot.
I enjoy the show but claiming it doesn't have lower viewership when it does helps Noone
And not just at the same time as Kebobi, it also had to compete with Stranger Things, The Boys, and Westworld due to Disney's poor timing. All of which are established popular shows.
I think they were hoping Obi-wan would bring in viewers and then they’d stick around and check out other new stuff, like Ms Marvel. I’d imagine there’s a decent sized crossover of marvel and Star Wars fans so it’d make sense. And on the day of the first Ms Marvel ep releasing, it was recommended to me as a watch next when the Obi-wan credits began to roll.
Honestly I'm not watching because I simply don't care about Ms. Marvel. She is a C class hero in the best of times. I think her powers are lame, I just don't care.
I love the show but understand not everyone will be drawn to it. I don’t understand why so much of the Marvel crowd feels like every single story needs to appeal to them. They are making a little something for everyone and I think that’s great!
Hell... I'm not a girl, not a teen, not Pakistani, not Muslim... I'm pretty freaking far from the target audience and I'm enjoying the show. Some people just love to hate and complain about stuff. Especially when it comes to this sort of "nerdy" content like marvel or star wars. Sometimes fans are so snobby that it's insane.
Same here, but I am enjoying the heck out of it. It's def one of my favorite D+ shows so far. I hope a lot of people are just waiting until all of the episodes are out to binge it, because it deserves to be seen and appreciated.
As a fellow white dude I think this show did more for me than any of the other marvel shows save for maybe Wandavision. I love the mini tour of Pakistani muslim culture. And the story of the great grandparents was very touching to me. All in all pretty great.
I think it's because the fanbase was a little more homogenous in the beginning - like, I can remember standing in line to see The Avengers in a major metropolitan area and the *only* Black dude there was cosplaying Nick Fury, and the majority of the girls were bored looked dates. As the franchise has grown, they've brought in more heroes who aren't white dudes, and every one of them has been met with the same kind of resistance given different justifications. This time it's not just a hero made for a different culture or gender or race or whatever - we're in a whole new *generation.* Iron Man came out when I was in college, and I have friends who have kids that watch Ms. Marvel. This is the beginning of mass media being targeted at a demographic that isn't Gen-X or Millennials, and I don't think some people are ready for that.
Absolutely! My best friend is a HUGE marvel comics fan/nerd and has had plenty of issues with the shows they’ve made on Disney+, but he recognizes that they aren’t necessarily targeted at him and he’s okay with that! Would be nice if more people understood it’s okay to see something you don’t like and just move on without parking on that speed bump.
I thought the first 3 episodes were just kinda boring, but that 4th Pakistan episode was awesome. I don’t think it’s the shows fault, just the new superhero learning their powers in the city thing has been done on screen a bunch already and is just a bit overdone.
I'm Muslim, POC, in my 20s and a woman and I enjoy Ms Marvel just like I enjoy Moon knight which is about a 40 year old Jewish man who has DID. Most marvel content is not even targeted for me. Most of the heroes are 15 to 20 years older than me yet I can relate to the characters and enjoy their arcs. How is it different for a teen girl?
THIS! Finally someone's said it, I don't grt why Marvel fans are like this, and what I mostly hate is when I say I love something and they start arguing how I'm wrong and what not, like bro be respectful of other people's opinions, not everyone has the same opinions but you can certainly be respectful instead of an ass about it.
I actually love the show, but I will binge it start to finish once the last episode airs.
It's like a 5 hour movie with 6 pee breaks, at least that's how I view these Marvel series. They are best seen in one sitting.
Wanda vision really leant itself to a more episodic watching. It was based on TV shows after all. Of all the Disney plus shows I think it is the one that is LEAST like a 6 hour movie.
WandaVision was never a show. It was an experience. All the theorising week to week, the suspense, Fietro, the main marvelstudios sub was in total confusion week to week and it was amazing
I’m watching it, and I get what they’re trying to do. Just like the comics, you’ve got to nourish new IP. Maybe we won’t get a billion dollar Ms Marvel movie trilogy, that doesn’t seem likely. But the movies the knuckle-draggers love to hate are the ones that fill in the quadrants that Iron Man and Hulk don’t.
Disney wants to make money, Feige wants to tell good stories. If Ms Marvel is drawing younger girls, that’s good. In my anecdotal experience, it is drawing the Hawkeye fans who liked Kate Bishop.
Remember, it took almost 40 years for SpiderMan to have a hit movie. Almost 50 years for Iron Man. Almost 40 for Superman. Disney is in it for the long game.
I think you're a bit off comparing Ms Marvel to superman or Spider-Man, or Ironman, all of these had many attempts at TV, movies, radio plays, etc, before they made it big on the silver screen.
But they were also incredibly popular before that, Superman is literally the most famous and best selling comic book of all time, and Spider-Man and Ironman (because of his inclusion in the Avengers) were all heavy hitters.
Nah, I’m not. You’re bolstering my point. It took radio plays and 1950s TV show to broaden Superman’s popularity. Iron man was a C-lister at Marvel, they had sold rights to the “good” IP, he was what Marvel had left in the cupboard.
I vividly remember people betting against Guardians of the Galaxy, a D-list IP, before the first movie. Shang Chi was below D-list, and they bastardized the rings into bracelets, “how dare they!!!”
Disney doesn’t have to hit with each swing, and some IP is targeted to underserved audiences. Representation matters, and we’ve had huge hits from characters targeted at audiences new to superhero franchises. I’m neither Muslim, nor south Asian, nor female… but I appreciate Marvel reaching those viewers.
Well I would guess not as many people are watching because the only posts about the movie are exactly like this and not about the actual content of the show.
Every other show had memes plastered all over Reddit after every episode.
This show seems to just people trying to forge people to like it for some reason
I watched episode 1 and felt like I was watching a Disney channel show, and thus I was bored and felt that I was not the target audience. I have simply chosen not to watch the show since then.
The only thing is that I feel like I have to watch all things Marvel in order to understand what happens next, but at the same time I don’t want to force myself to watch it even though I hate it.
As the MCU expands I think it’s okay to understand that the target demographic isn’t necessarily always going to be the same for every project. So just focus your time on what you do enjoy.
I agree. Why watch something just to hate it? Like I said though, my only concern is that if something happens in the show I don’t watch and then I try to watch something else later I might be confused.
I can’t imagine anything super central to a plot that would prevent you from enjoying another project down the road. Most of these series are simply serving as “origins” for new characters so when they show up in another show or movie down the road they won’t need a lot of exposition or backstory. Then if people are interested in learning more they can go back and watch the show, if not they move on.
same here with me, just that I'm forcing myself to watch it. Till now I didn't catch anything important beside the Clandestines and the dimension/realm of them.
If you ever have the time to give it another chance, I highly recommend it. I wasn’t big on the first episode either but pretty much every episode after has been great. It definitely feels like it fits in the MCU and it’s easily one of the better marvel shows since Disney+ started.
There are many movies which were praised and won many awards and yet couldn't break the box office.
Higher ratings are given when the shows are good and not on how many people have watched the show.
Personally I absolutely love Ms Marvel and the style is truly well done and the entire idea behind it all is great, not everyone has the same taste and I respect that, but don't say things such as "hardly anyone watches it" when that's not even a fact.
I'm gonna probably be biased as a South Asian dude (though I'm defo no the age demographic) but this show has been, for me, the most emotional gut punching show.
Especially episode 5.
As a white dude with no ties to any kind of this stuff, that was an emotional gut punch no matter what. It's actually resulted in me doing some research into the history of the countries and what happened, because I honestly thought they were always two separate places.
I'm a brown person, but since I live nowhere near India or Pakistan, I had no idea about most of this stuff, so it's definitely not only knowledge-thirsty people like you that are learning about this. Some of us are even learning about our own ancestors and history because of these stories and, in my opinion, that's a pretty good reason to send out these stories into the world.
Oh come on now there's plenty of valid criticism of it. The villains for one are the most bland and boring villains ever in the MCU, honestly Jeff Bridges was more interesting than the Clan Destines.
If someone complains about her being muslim or Pakistani heritage, fuck 'em, they're racist then, but the show isn't perfect just because it tackles themes other mainstream media shies away from.
That's a valid complaint though, isn't it? The last show was all about Egyptian and Middle Eastern culture and I'd argue it was one of their best ones. Marvel's strength is that they could make a wet potato and fans would watch it.
Indian here. Blind haters need to understand two things: different regions have different cultures, and the show is told from a perspective of a teen. Once you understand that, you'll find the show is not as bad as you think.
There's so many things the show gets right, or atleast tries to, and definitely the partition scene hits hard. I get that foreigners might not like that because they don't know what we've gone through.
People on IMDb keep saying 'there's too much religion involved' and 'they could've toned it down like the way it's in Europe/like the way it's with (us) christians' but what is the point is it does not show the reality? Culture in the subcontinent is literally reflected every day in your life, even in things like clothing, and Muslims are known to be extremely religious. So criticism like this does not make sense, it will literally take the soul out of the character.
The show might not be Endgame or Rangnarok level, but honestly it's a really great story on it's own.
Yes, the acting could've been better, the story could've had more seriousness, improvements could've been made in the dialogues spoken, but frankly, I feel there's no need for that. Afterall, it's a story told from a perspective of a teen.
My fiancé is Filipino and she is seeing a LOT of parallels and loves the show.
I do too. I just wasn’t expecting monstrous exposition of real world stuff I never knew about.
Frankly, I fucking hate modern MCU and completely fed up on capeshit. But Ms. Marvel has been a breath of fresh air both due to its originality and how it actually tries to portray a culture that is foreign to me. Glad to hear the stuff portrayed in it is in large part accurate.
I wouldn't say the culture portrayed is 'accurate', but as accurate as shows can get, especially considering it's a foreign one, and shot on foreign land (the 'Pakistani' scenes are actually set in Thailand).
So, the costume design and the set design are awesome, and the way songs are used is just fucking amazing, the only problem is the the dialogues, especially the Hindi/Urdu ones, feels like someone used Google Translate to come up with those.
I think the main thing is that people don't understand what the rating is.
Rotten Tomatoes asks a group of their own people to watch the show or the movie and then the percentage they post is the percentage of people in that group that enjoyed it.
That's it.
It's not rating how good it is or whether anyone else should watch it. It's simply their own specific set of opinions.
But even then, all ratings and reviews are just opinions and, as you said, people should just watch what they want.
I think it's really great so far. It's just a matter of not enough people actually watching it since it is on Disney+ and people don't want the subscription, but all of the marvel shows so far have been knockouts so I think it's worth it.
I’ve only watched the first 2 episodes. Not because I dislike the show, but because I’m watching stranger things and have had to watch 4 seasons of it. Almost done now and will certainly watch the rest.
I just started watching it for the first time yesterday, saw all 5 episodes. I actually enjoyed it. Not my favorite of the Disney + shows, but not as bad as people are making it out to be.
I think there are a few reasons why it has low viewership;
1) The marketing for it is bad. I’m not sure if I live under a rock or something but I didn’t even know that show existed until I started seeing memes about how no one is watching it.
2) I watched the first episode and I’m not terribly motivated to keep watching. I’m sure it gets better and more interesting, but I came for a super hero show and pretty much got what seemed like a teenage girl in a religious family slice of life show. Didn’t get to powers until near the end of the episode and by then I was kinda bored.
I’ll probably watch the rest eventually but to me it’s kinda obvious why there is poor viewership.
The 2 worst camps:
The ones who constantly remind you how they don't watch it and how it's a failure, trash, woke, etc and post a thread every day about how they don't like it and that you're a child if you do enjoy it
& The ones who keep insisting that you have to like it, that they "don't understand how everyone doesn't love it", claim you're -ist for not watching it and post a thread everyday on how terrible it is that not everyone is interested in it
OP thinks only his opinion matters and screw the majority of us that actually love and watch this series
Edit: “hardly anyone is watching” what a bland mindset
Isn't viewership the most important thing?
At least to Disney. They don't care if they have 10,000 dedicated fans who watch every week. If they can have 1,000,000 people who watch another show.
Sadly when it comes to TV and film viewing numbers and actually quality of show do not often correspond and I am looking directly at anything that Chuck Lorre produces for TV.
I don’t get it. I actually really like it, and I find the glimpse in to the Pakistani North-American diaspora to be fascinating. And the editing is really unique, I like how the environment around Kamala comes to life with her imagination. There’s a really cool sequence of her texting and the texts pop up around the environment. Also, her awkwardness is relatable. I was a cringy teenager in highschool too.
Not impressed with the bad guys but apart from that it’s solid.
Also, about the “wokeness”, it’s pretty obvious when Disney is *trying* to be “woke” because it feels off. Think Captain Marvel or the 2020 Mulan. This feels as if the producers have actually put a lot of time and effort in a faithful portrayal of the life and culture of a teenage superhero who is from the Pakistani-American diaspora (which… come on, if her family and life was the exact same as an anglo-saxon family *that* would be weird). Simply representing non-white, non-male people isn’t “woke”—doing it badly and superficially to check off an element of a checklist is. Those who don’t want to watch the show for the simple reason that the lead is a brown teenage girl should perhaps try to be a bit more open-minded—just because someone doesn’t *look* like you doesn’t mean there is absolutely nothing you can relate to or enjoy. Instead of going in with the opinion there’s nothing to enjoy, why not try and find things you like instead?
I love this show. I was like wow, they made a comic with a Muslim Pakistani girl that talked about The Partition with djinn elements? And this was post 9\11?!?!?!? I was frakking floored. I didn't think it was possible! I started googling things to see if I slipped into an alternate universe.🤭🤭🤭
It shouldnt matter how many people are watching for some rare shows. Sometimes the love towards the show matters. Like AOS was loved by its medium size fanbase. Same for this show.
The sad truth about rotten tomatoes is that it's a niche group of people. It doesn't actually represent the whole market. Regular people don't make an account and submit reviews. Sure, the rotten tomato crowd thinks it's good... but the market as a whole clearly doesn't. I saw a comment that says viewership is 100,000. So clearly rotten tomatoes doesn't even account for the entire group of fans who like it, considering RT only has less than 6000 fan reviews.
Plenty of people watch it but because it's about a muslim girl instead of a white man all the racist misogynistic bigots have to scream and cry about it.
Honestly, I gave the show a chance and it just isn’t very good. The acting is bad all around and the characters are kind of unlikable. The action is also almost cringe inducing to watch.
I watched Episode 4 last night and I think I’m done.
I think viewership is maybe the wrong question. Disney doesn't get paid per watch for these shows. What matters is if those viewers are left with a desire to continue subscribing and paying money.
I watched Hawkeye, Boba Fett, Moon Knight and Obi Wan and I didn't really like them. I still finished the shows, but with every bad show I watch I start to think, do I really need this subscription? Ms. Marvel isn't perfect, but it's left me feeling a lot more optimistic about the quality of future Disney Plus shows, and I would guess that this is true of a lot of people.
The show has a female lead and one of the first Disney production to have a Muslim lead: no critics that want to keep his/her job is going to shit on it.
I like the show. Finally a brown person. Was kinda annoyed that most of the hero’s were white or western. Like what, did the rest of world not have heroes? Glad they moved away from that with Black Panther, Shang Chi, and now this. The only ones hurt are those who just wanna see white people in their shows.
As a white cis male I still love Ms marvel. So what if she is brown. She is a girl that has to discover herself just like anybody else. Also I learned something about India/Pakistan
I've been wanting to watch the show. I'm just kind of burnt out on marvel at the moment. I watched all the movies again to get ready for multiverse of madness and with all the other marvel shows that have come out I think I just need a break before getting back into it. I'll probably watch all this show about the time She-Hulk is coming out.
People online *claim* that they're not watching because they're throwing a temper tantrum. One person tweets that viewership is low, then every article cites that tweet as a source and says that numbers are "reportedly" low.
You have no idea what the actual viewership numbers are. Disney hasn't said.
Reviewers - who *did* watch it - loved it.
I've watched a few episodes and enjoyed it. However I hate not being able to binge so generally wait until most of the run is completed then watch. I do this with most episodic content now.
Viewership is still in the hundreds of thousands. Not Stranger Things numbers but I don’t think that qualifies as “hardly anyone”. **edit** A lot of you don’t seem to understand the game Marvel/Disney is playing with these shows. For one they make crazy money off their movies, theme parks, and merchandise. These shows cost pocket change to them and are way safer investments than if they were doing movies for each character. This way they can get origin stories out of the way, and introduce these characters down the road in other shows/movies without lots of backstory or exposition. Those folks who want to learn more about a character could go back and watch their show and those that don’t, won’t have to. Another thing is that the target demographics are going to be different for some of these projects as the MCU continues to grow. Some of these shows like Ms Marvel are geared more for the kids now who will be growing up with this stuff to enjoy. As they have always done they are laying foundations piece by piece that will last for a long time because to them it’s all about the long game. They will always have giant success in between as well with things like Thor coming up.
The people are Reddit that brag about not watching it, as if anyone cares.
So many posts are just rants on this sub lately, it's so annoying. I miss the times when there were quality memes
This is exactly what happened to all the Star Wars subs.
people showing up to complain about how 'woke' a franchise is despite it being 'woke' since before they were born. we see it in Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the rings, Marvel, etc. people who pretend to be fans but completely miss the underlying message of these franchises. they can see an entire room full of different aliens and theyre fine but if too many humans arent white they get upset for some reason.
They did the same about Capt. Marvel when Brie insulted them. Most people don't even know what WOKE means or even where it came from. It was a saying years ago to mean you understand another cultures struggles. That's it! It has been distorted to mean anti-white which it never was. I ignore the ignorance of people using the word now. That being said, I like the show but admit it's a little dry and I'm a minority. It was bound to happen with so many shows. Just know one show or movie bleeds into another so missing this may cause a gap in a future movie or show.
>They did the same about Capt. Marvel when Brie insulted them. The worst part is that it wasn't an insult and it had nothing to do with *Captain Marvel*. Brie Larson brought up her own (and others') disappointment that ratings of some recent movies at that time such as *A Wrinkle in Time* focused mainly on the reviews of older white males who would not have experienced the movie the same way as more diverse viewers would have. She suggested that other groups could have identified more with the story and characters. She specifically said more than once in that interview: "I'm not trying to take any seats away from the table. I'm just suggesting that we add more seats for more opinions." I'm quoting from memory, but it was basically that message. Unfortunately, people completely changed that message and thanks to the trends of the internet, nobody even knew what they were angry about. They were just spreading the message that Brie Larson was trying to crap all over white guys and only cared about being woke. It even became a "totally legitimate quote" that she didn't want males to watch *Captain Marvel* because it wasn't for them.
The complainers still wouldn’t have liked her if they had listened to the whole interview. They don’t want to add those seats to the table.
I personally think there's 2 problems. There's a fairly large group of people on that side of the argument and you're right that part of them are the biased and terrible people that makes up problem #1. But problem #2 is that a portion of those people jump on the bandwagon and hate on someone without knowing the actual story. People need to stop believing stories without doing their own research. Whether it's about a celebrity's opinion, what dog to get or about a medical issue. Just take 5 minutes and research something so you're actually bringing an intelligent side to the discussion. I welcome people being critics and suggesting what might have been cooler or more interesting in a story. But when you have nothing to say other than "This person sucks", it's usually the case that you either have a childish obsession with hating others or you're just spouting something that you heard from someone else. ("You" referring to the relevant person in the scenario, of course. Not you, the Redditor I'm replying to.)
EXACTLY! I just recently watched "This Changes Everything" which is about women in Hollywood, both in front of and behind the cameras, and how much bias there has been over the years. It felt like common sense to me watching it as a woman, but it still provided a ton of data to back up the disparities for women in Hollywood, one of which is who the main critics are for movies and TV. This Situation with Captain Marvel actually led Rotten Tomatoes to shut down because the gatekeepers were bombing the film weeks before it even came out. She knew that the film would have a harder time simply due to the fact that it passes the Bechdel Test, something even Wonder Woman couldn't do. Brie also refused the original Ms. Marvel costume (as she should) and went for the more logical costume for a soldier- which of course meant she was completely covered.
same with BLM, pretty much anything that advocates for another cultures struggle is painted as an attack on white people, which sucks because it seems a lot of us are insecure enough to feed into that. the show isnt amazing but its marvel content and its not garbage so ill continue to enjoy it until the next shows/movies come out. they cant all be huge blockbusters and hopefully this doesnt deter disney from giving more minor characters their own series. but as im sure everyone is aware people are always gonna complain. i actually saw someone on facebook complaining about she-hulk like the character was just created... and when i explained that the character is like 40+ years old they blocked me.
For a while the popular posts were just "DAE not hate the sequels?" which got boring. Surely there must be something in the movies to joke about, or relate to anything else.
Everybody on both sides has been fucking ranting. WE DONT CARE IF YOU DONT LIKE THE SHOW OR THINK THE SHOW IS THE GREATEST SHOW ON PLANET EARTH STFU
A man of culture I see. I too hate everyone equally.
Yes... let the hate flow through you.
There'd be a club for people like that, but it would fail because the members would all hate each other.
Me: **does literally nothing** Some reddit cunt: YO I DO NOT WATCH MISS MARVEL I AM SO COOL THE SHOW SUCKS HAHAHA😎😎😎😎😎😎😎
As the director of the much maligned movie *Ishtar* once said: *"If all of the people who hate Ishtar had seen it, I would be a rich woman today."* I saw it and I liked it.
>Not Stranger Things numbers None of the MCU shows have Stranger Things numbers, not even Loki
I was just using an example that would be considered opposite end of the viewership spectrum. I’m sure Netflix wishes a lot of their other content did as well as Stranger Things too.
There are not many shows ever that have stranger things numbers.
Right? That's like being dissapointed in your movie if it doesn't break a billion in ticketsales
To be fair, there’s a LOT of content coming out right now. Obi Wan, Stranger Things, Ms Marvel and The Boys, all at the same time. It’s a lot to consume in a short amount of time. Plus I’ve seen **lots of people** say they prefer to wait until all episodes are out so they can binge watch.
Also Umbrella Academy, Only Murders in the Building, Westworld, The Old Man, and if you're a Trek fan, The Orville and Strange New Worlds. It's a lot to have all at once.
>Plus I’ve seen **lots of people** say they prefer to wait until all episodes are out so they can binge watch. This is a huge, commonly ignored point. Also, I *just* saw Dr. Strange 2 and no way in hell am I consuming MCU content out of order.
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Not sure if Dr. Strangemom affects Ms. M, but I hate spoilers so it's just good policy.
Hundreds of thousands isn’t what production companies want. They want millions. So in their terms, hardly anyone is watching it
Yeah. Part of me feels like most critics and commenters are projecting their personal feelings about the show. Whether it’s casting, content or other.
Where are you getting those numbers from, or is it just a guess? Streaming services aren't exactly known for being open about their viewership numbers.
OP must have millions of friends if hundreds of thousands is hardly anybody.
lots of people will to binge it too.
The show has felt like multiple competing shows going on at once. The one that interested me the most was the lore and looking into the history of Kamala's family and Pakistan. Then there is the slice of life show about a teenage girl. This was strongest in the first two episodes. Finally, there is the typical MCU thing. DODC stuff mainly. Looks like that is how it is finishing out. I am pretty sure the finale will serve as the connective tissue to The Marvels movie. If it where me? Make Episode 5 just a little longer and have Kamala go home and become Ms. Marvel. Then end it. As a side note, I really like how the pieces of her costume each represent one of her adventures. Like that shows how her journey has shaped her into a hero.
I think the “slice of life” and family lore are both wrapped up in the larger narrative that this is a coming of age story from someone in a different culture. To predominantly white viewers like myself it can feel like story and writing decisions, but from the characters’ perspective it really is just part of life. I’ve really enjoyed it so far even though I’m not necessarily the target audience, and I wish more people could enjoy things that are different from their perspective or when they aren’t the target audience too.
I think it was because it was advertised as a teen show by Disney. That turned older people off. That is a shame, because it is a good show. It was almost as bad as what they did with John Carter.
It is good, but definitely a teen show. Like the humor level seems much more like a Pakistani Lizzy Maguire with powers. Which is fine, but I understand why older viewers aren’t loving it
Honestly, I felt like it was too fast, I don't know maybe it might be other things happening around me but the show felt like it was rushed.
>because it was advertised as a teen show by Disney As a 32-year-old male in South Africa, I don't feel put off by something being referred to as a teen show or something that promotes women or any other group. I think Runaways and Cloak and Dagger were pretty decent, although I definitely think Cloak and Dagger was a better show. Personally, I love almost everything about *Ms Marvel* so far. I do have some writing notes where I would have done something differently, but I do think that a lot of people are avoiding it when they should check it out a bit and if they don't like it at all, they don't have to watch more. The Spider-Man MCU movies were well-received and the amount of teen stuff in this show is roughly the same as Peter Parker's life, in my opinion.
I've really enjoyed the new perspective on Pakistani immigrant culture, but the since they introduced the main antagonists the action pacing's felt waay off. Plus they're a pretty flat enemy without any intrigue or threat. I feel like it's working well as a coming of age story, but failing on the the comic book / mcu action side.
If it were me, save all the going to Karachi and Red Dagger stuff for season 2
Legitimately they could have left the clandestines until next season. Have season 1 be entirely slice of superheroic life, her learning to control her powers and balance being a hero with being a person. Have a competent DDOC trying to force her to register under the Sokovia Accords be the primary villains. The slice of life aspect of the show is it's strong point right now
Yeah, it seems really jumbled. Like...all the shit that went down at her brother's wedding and nobody is saying anything about it? Her best friend just found out she's got superpowers and isn't blowing up her phone 24/7 going "wtf, dude??" Now they're just in Pakistan so the characters we've established (Kamala's bff, her dad, her brother and SIL, and Bruno) are just out of the picture now and we're left with her, her pain in the ass mom and her hippie grandma. It seems like they're just throwing a bunch of shit out there with no real narrative line going. This is why you have 1 director do a show and not 3.
Honestly I’m loving each element of the show so far ( the family heritage/lore stuff being the weakest for me ) but I think the show needs one more episode for her to really become Ms Marvel and fight those random government people, as well as probably a show down with Cameron (is that how you spell it??), which will probably be a standard repeat of powers type thing but that’s fine, I guess. But you’re definitely right about her costume, I love how it’s part of her journey!
The least interesting part to me is the teenage stuff. I guess that is because I am older. It was really well done though. Kamran. I hope they don't have to have a showdown.
I’m a guy ( so the dramatic romance portrayed in this show doesn’t apply to me ) in high school at the moment, so I can find enjoyment in watching a superhero ALSO be in highschool. Guess that’s the fun with so many different projects, everyone gets something. But I’m guessing there’ll be some drama in the last episode which causes Kamram and Kamala to fight. It’ll be kinda generic so I’m afraid the last episode will be forgettable. Also, this is kind of random, but I wished in superhero IP’s the actual struggles of high school (studying, tests, grades,) were portrayed more commonly.
I agree actually with your last point. That may not be my thing, but, there should be enough diversity to appeal to different groups of people. I thought that was what Ms. Marvel was going to be at first.
Eh to be fair, most people don’t want to watch people struggling at school. I’m fine with how it is, but I would welcome that little bit extra content.
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'hey we're the red daggers' \*immediately half of them get killed\* i'll guess they're a major part of whatever comic she came from but here they're a big nothing
Also kind of dumb that this apparently ancient order had two members.
It is a superhero show, if it isn't ending in some sort of big battle, you lose the majority of the audience.
Honestly this show will have a constant viewing over the years I mean Indian and Pakistani people will watch it for many more years beacuse it is so culturally accurate
It was the most interesting part to me of the whole show. Not saying the rest was bad.
I agree. I found the historical look at everything post British colonization very interesting.
My family is Indian Muslim. Everyone is watching it, even those who don’t normally watch Marvel stuff.
The show largely follows the comics. Which I felt did a good job on highlighting the parallels of immigrant kids or first generation kids of immigrants having to put on “multiple masks” for people outside their culture and within, while trying to balance everything. I find it takes the themes of spider-man’s early days where he’s trying to be both Peter Parker and Spider-Man and where the expectations of a super hero can conflict with the expectations of a good student/boyfriend/nephew. Ms Marvel takes that and adds a layer of an first generation immigrant and shows the conflict of expectations of being a “good Muslim girl” (or insert any culture) can conflict other societal expectations.
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Case in point: Treasure Planet. Well-liked and we’ll-reviewed movie, but it flopped at the box office
I mean. I love treasure planet. Saw it in theaters. But it's at 70%
Fuck that movie slaps. The PS2 game also slaps just as hard.
While I agree about Treasure Planet, it's a little bit different since you'd have to pay to see that in theaters whereas Disney+ people get Ms. Marvel for free. It just doesn't resonate with me. I can see it resonating with tweens and teens, but Marvel needs to figure out if that's worth losing the adult viewership for.
Yeah, I'm really confused how OP doesn't understand that ratings and viewership are two different things.
'Hardly anyone'.i don't where op got this information from.yeah it is low compared to other mcu shows but hardly anyone is a very strong term for that
For real, I’ve watched every episode Wednesday morning before lunch because I’m excited about the story. Seems like they are just shitting on something THEY don’t like and are confused how the world works, because other people like it and that just doesn’t make sense to them.
It has had considerably lower viewership than the other shows. This is because of two factors. 1. Blatant racism/Islamophobia, people don't want to watch because they "can't relate" or it's "not made for them" I disagree but it's still a reason. 2. The stupidest marvel decision ever, to put a Disney show streaming at the same time as Obi-Wan Kenobi, one of the most looked forward to star wars shows. The next marvel show isn't until August with I Am Groot and She Hulk. They could have pushed it back and raised viewership but they bit themselves in the foot. I enjoy the show but claiming it doesn't have lower viewership when it does helps Noone
And not just at the same time as Kebobi, it also had to compete with Stranger Things, The Boys, and Westworld due to Disney's poor timing. All of which are established popular shows.
The Umbrella Academy season 3 also dropped the Wednesday after Kenobi and had good numbers. Ms. Marvel got thrown to the wolves.
I actually quit watching Obi-Wan because I found it kind of boring but I'm still watching Ms Marvel lol
I think they were hoping Obi-wan would bring in viewers and then they’d stick around and check out other new stuff, like Ms Marvel. I’d imagine there’s a decent sized crossover of marvel and Star Wars fans so it’d make sense. And on the day of the first Ms Marvel ep releasing, it was recommended to me as a watch next when the Obi-wan credits began to roll.
Honestly I'm not watching because I simply don't care about Ms. Marvel. She is a C class hero in the best of times. I think her powers are lame, I just don't care.
It's also clearly aimed at the younger crowd. From what I remember, it's the highest rated show among gen z.
I love the show but understand not everyone will be drawn to it. I don’t understand why so much of the Marvel crowd feels like every single story needs to appeal to them. They are making a little something for everyone and I think that’s great!
Hell... I'm not a girl, not a teen, not Pakistani, not Muslim... I'm pretty freaking far from the target audience and I'm enjoying the show. Some people just love to hate and complain about stuff. Especially when it comes to this sort of "nerdy" content like marvel or star wars. Sometimes fans are so snobby that it's insane.
My brother’s wife is Pakistani and apparently the show is HUGE in Pakistan. So that’s cool.
Same here, but I am enjoying the heck out of it. It's def one of my favorite D+ shows so far. I hope a lot of people are just waiting until all of the episodes are out to binge it, because it deserves to be seen and appreciated.
As a fellow white dude I think this show did more for me than any of the other marvel shows save for maybe Wandavision. I love the mini tour of Pakistani muslim culture. And the story of the great grandparents was very touching to me. All in all pretty great.
I think it's because the fanbase was a little more homogenous in the beginning - like, I can remember standing in line to see The Avengers in a major metropolitan area and the *only* Black dude there was cosplaying Nick Fury, and the majority of the girls were bored looked dates. As the franchise has grown, they've brought in more heroes who aren't white dudes, and every one of them has been met with the same kind of resistance given different justifications. This time it's not just a hero made for a different culture or gender or race or whatever - we're in a whole new *generation.* Iron Man came out when I was in college, and I have friends who have kids that watch Ms. Marvel. This is the beginning of mass media being targeted at a demographic that isn't Gen-X or Millennials, and I don't think some people are ready for that.
Absolutely! My best friend is a HUGE marvel comics fan/nerd and has had plenty of issues with the shows they’ve made on Disney+, but he recognizes that they aren’t necessarily targeted at him and he’s okay with that! Would be nice if more people understood it’s okay to see something you don’t like and just move on without parking on that speed bump.
I thought the first 3 episodes were just kinda boring, but that 4th Pakistan episode was awesome. I don’t think it’s the shows fault, just the new superhero learning their powers in the city thing has been done on screen a bunch already and is just a bit overdone.
I'm Muslim, POC, in my 20s and a woman and I enjoy Ms Marvel just like I enjoy Moon knight which is about a 40 year old Jewish man who has DID. Most marvel content is not even targeted for me. Most of the heroes are 15 to 20 years older than me yet I can relate to the characters and enjoy their arcs. How is it different for a teen girl?
This
Well thats mainly because for over a decade every property did appeal to them.
THIS! Finally someone's said it, I don't grt why Marvel fans are like this, and what I mostly hate is when I say I love something and they start arguing how I'm wrong and what not, like bro be respectful of other people's opinions, not everyone has the same opinions but you can certainly be respectful instead of an ass about it.
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Exactly!!!
I actually love the show, but I will binge it start to finish once the last episode airs. It's like a 5 hour movie with 6 pee breaks, at least that's how I view these Marvel series. They are best seen in one sitting.
I would agree with you if not for WandaVision. The suspense from week to week is what really sold that show
Yeah fr the show carried on that weekly suspense well .
Wanda vision really leant itself to a more episodic watching. It was based on TV shows after all. Of all the Disney plus shows I think it is the one that is LEAST like a 6 hour movie.
WandaVision was never a show. It was an experience. All the theorising week to week, the suspense, Fietro, the main marvelstudios sub was in total confusion week to week and it was amazing
I’m watching it, and I get what they’re trying to do. Just like the comics, you’ve got to nourish new IP. Maybe we won’t get a billion dollar Ms Marvel movie trilogy, that doesn’t seem likely. But the movies the knuckle-draggers love to hate are the ones that fill in the quadrants that Iron Man and Hulk don’t. Disney wants to make money, Feige wants to tell good stories. If Ms Marvel is drawing younger girls, that’s good. In my anecdotal experience, it is drawing the Hawkeye fans who liked Kate Bishop. Remember, it took almost 40 years for SpiderMan to have a hit movie. Almost 50 years for Iron Man. Almost 40 for Superman. Disney is in it for the long game.
I think you're a bit off comparing Ms Marvel to superman or Spider-Man, or Ironman, all of these had many attempts at TV, movies, radio plays, etc, before they made it big on the silver screen. But they were also incredibly popular before that, Superman is literally the most famous and best selling comic book of all time, and Spider-Man and Ironman (because of his inclusion in the Avengers) were all heavy hitters.
In fairness so is Ms. Marvel. Its kind of insane how well that original run sold and how much the character blew up in such a short space of time.
Nah, I’m not. You’re bolstering my point. It took radio plays and 1950s TV show to broaden Superman’s popularity. Iron man was a C-lister at Marvel, they had sold rights to the “good” IP, he was what Marvel had left in the cupboard. I vividly remember people betting against Guardians of the Galaxy, a D-list IP, before the first movie. Shang Chi was below D-list, and they bastardized the rings into bracelets, “how dare they!!!” Disney doesn’t have to hit with each swing, and some IP is targeted to underserved audiences. Representation matters, and we’ve had huge hits from characters targeted at audiences new to superhero franchises. I’m neither Muslim, nor south Asian, nor female… but I appreciate Marvel reaching those viewers.
The two have 0 correlation so I don’t understand your question
I’m not watching it now so I can binge it when it’s done. I hate waiting for weekly episodes.
Um What?
Who said "hardly anyone is watching"?
“Edgy” teenagers who think the boys is the epitome of cinema
Well I would guess not as many people are watching because the only posts about the movie are exactly like this and not about the actual content of the show. Every other show had memes plastered all over Reddit after every episode. This show seems to just people trying to forge people to like it for some reason
Hyperbole, hyperbole everywhere.
I watched episode 1 and felt like I was watching a Disney channel show, and thus I was bored and felt that I was not the target audience. I have simply chosen not to watch the show since then. The only thing is that I feel like I have to watch all things Marvel in order to understand what happens next, but at the same time I don’t want to force myself to watch it even though I hate it.
As the MCU expands I think it’s okay to understand that the target demographic isn’t necessarily always going to be the same for every project. So just focus your time on what you do enjoy.
I agree. Why watch something just to hate it? Like I said though, my only concern is that if something happens in the show I don’t watch and then I try to watch something else later I might be confused.
Just watch a youtube breakdown video that will cover everything mcu important in about 20 mins
I can’t imagine anything super central to a plot that would prevent you from enjoying another project down the road. Most of these series are simply serving as “origins” for new characters so when they show up in another show or movie down the road they won’t need a lot of exposition or backstory. Then if people are interested in learning more they can go back and watch the show, if not they move on.
same here with me, just that I'm forcing myself to watch it. Till now I didn't catch anything important beside the Clandestines and the dimension/realm of them.
Same!
If you ever have the time to give it another chance, I highly recommend it. I wasn’t big on the first episode either but pretty much every episode after has been great. It definitely feels like it fits in the MCU and it’s easily one of the better marvel shows since Disney+ started.
There are many movies which were praised and won many awards and yet couldn't break the box office. Higher ratings are given when the shows are good and not on how many people have watched the show.
Unless you are talking Amazon reviews. /joking to lighten the mood (katchow)
Hahah! They're not reviews they're THE FACTS
Personally I absolutely love Ms Marvel and the style is truly well done and the entire idea behind it all is great, not everyone has the same taste and I respect that, but don't say things such as "hardly anyone watches it" when that's not even a fact.
What’s the point of this meme when it’s fucking stupid.
I'm gonna probably be biased as a South Asian dude (though I'm defo no the age demographic) but this show has been, for me, the most emotional gut punching show. Especially episode 5.
As a white dude with no ties to any kind of this stuff, that was an emotional gut punch no matter what. It's actually resulted in me doing some research into the history of the countries and what happened, because I honestly thought they were always two separate places.
I'm a brown person, but since I live nowhere near India or Pakistan, I had no idea about most of this stuff, so it's definitely not only knowledge-thirsty people like you that are learning about this. Some of us are even learning about our own ancestors and history because of these stories and, in my opinion, that's a pretty good reason to send out these stories into the world.
Ohhh, episode 5 Got me😭
People care about Rotten Tomatoes?
I love Ms Marvel
Well the ones who actually watch it love it. Can't win them all.
Whenever someone complains about Ms. Marvel all I hear is “why didn’t they make this show for me?”
Oh come on now there's plenty of valid criticism of it. The villains for one are the most bland and boring villains ever in the MCU, honestly Jeff Bridges was more interesting than the Clan Destines. If someone complains about her being muslim or Pakistani heritage, fuck 'em, they're racist then, but the show isn't perfect just because it tackles themes other mainstream media shies away from.
That's a valid complaint though, isn't it? The last show was all about Egyptian and Middle Eastern culture and I'd argue it was one of their best ones. Marvel's strength is that they could make a wet potato and fans would watch it.
Indian here. Blind haters need to understand two things: different regions have different cultures, and the show is told from a perspective of a teen. Once you understand that, you'll find the show is not as bad as you think. There's so many things the show gets right, or atleast tries to, and definitely the partition scene hits hard. I get that foreigners might not like that because they don't know what we've gone through. People on IMDb keep saying 'there's too much religion involved' and 'they could've toned it down like the way it's in Europe/like the way it's with (us) christians' but what is the point is it does not show the reality? Culture in the subcontinent is literally reflected every day in your life, even in things like clothing, and Muslims are known to be extremely religious. So criticism like this does not make sense, it will literally take the soul out of the character. The show might not be Endgame or Rangnarok level, but honestly it's a really great story on it's own. Yes, the acting could've been better, the story could've had more seriousness, improvements could've been made in the dialogues spoken, but frankly, I feel there's no need for that. Afterall, it's a story told from a perspective of a teen.
My fiancé is Filipino and she is seeing a LOT of parallels and loves the show. I do too. I just wasn’t expecting monstrous exposition of real world stuff I never knew about.
Frankly, I fucking hate modern MCU and completely fed up on capeshit. But Ms. Marvel has been a breath of fresh air both due to its originality and how it actually tries to portray a culture that is foreign to me. Glad to hear the stuff portrayed in it is in large part accurate.
I wouldn't say the culture portrayed is 'accurate', but as accurate as shows can get, especially considering it's a foreign one, and shot on foreign land (the 'Pakistani' scenes are actually set in Thailand). So, the costume design and the set design are awesome, and the way songs are used is just fucking amazing, the only problem is the the dialogues, especially the Hindi/Urdu ones, feels like someone used Google Translate to come up with those.
Rotten tomatoes is garbage
This subreddit is obsessed with RT scores for some reason. Like bruh, they don’t matter, just watch what you like and skip what you don’t.
I think the main thing is that people don't understand what the rating is. Rotten Tomatoes asks a group of their own people to watch the show or the movie and then the percentage they post is the percentage of people in that group that enjoyed it. That's it. It's not rating how good it is or whether anyone else should watch it. It's simply their own specific set of opinions. But even then, all ratings and reviews are just opinions and, as you said, people should just watch what they want.
“I don’t even know who you are”
Because those watching love it. I'm watching it. Therefore, I love it.
I think it's really great so far. It's just a matter of not enough people actually watching it since it is on Disney+ and people don't want the subscription, but all of the marvel shows so far have been knockouts so I think it's worth it.
I’ve only watched the first 2 episodes. Not because I dislike the show, but because I’m watching stranger things and have had to watch 4 seasons of it. Almost done now and will certainly watch the rest.
I have nothing in common with the characters, but I still like the show.
Not every show is intended for all target audiences. Its okay if other people have shows made for them. I'm okay with that.
I just started watching it for the first time yesterday, saw all 5 episodes. I actually enjoyed it. Not my favorite of the Disney + shows, but not as bad as people are making it out to be.
If I remember correctly, owners on Rotten Tomatoes are related to Disney
They made a kids show and are wondering why full blown adults without kids aren't watching it?
I think there are a few reasons why it has low viewership; 1) The marketing for it is bad. I’m not sure if I live under a rock or something but I didn’t even know that show existed until I started seeing memes about how no one is watching it. 2) I watched the first episode and I’m not terribly motivated to keep watching. I’m sure it gets better and more interesting, but I came for a super hero show and pretty much got what seemed like a teenage girl in a religious family slice of life show. Didn’t get to powers until near the end of the episode and by then I was kinda bored. I’ll probably watch the rest eventually but to me it’s kinda obvious why there is poor viewership.
Never trust rotten.
Then who should I trust
random redditor man of course
It's great, just like Hawkeye. You should watch it
The 2 worst camps: The ones who constantly remind you how they don't watch it and how it's a failure, trash, woke, etc and post a thread every day about how they don't like it and that you're a child if you do enjoy it & The ones who keep insisting that you have to like it, that they "don't understand how everyone doesn't love it", claim you're -ist for not watching it and post a thread everyday on how terrible it is that not everyone is interested in it
Bullshit. The show is fantastic. It’s just hated on by the m she u crowd
I’m watching it, Ms Marvel is my favorite Disney plus marvel show so far!
OP thinks only his opinion matters and screw the majority of us that actually love and watch this series Edit: “hardly anyone is watching” what a bland mindset
Isn't viewership the most important thing? At least to Disney. They don't care if they have 10,000 dedicated fans who watch every week. If they can have 1,000,000 people who watch another show.
Don't know what you're talking about? I love ms marvel
What's funny is as I saw this meme I have Ms. Marvel in the background.
Seems like a dumb question. “Why make/do something good if nobody notices?” Unless I’m missing some nuance here.
"its not for you" ok then i wont watch it.
Sadly when it comes to TV and film viewing numbers and actually quality of show do not often correspond and I am looking directly at anything that Chuck Lorre produces for TV.
You’re right. Studios should give up making critically acclaimed films and instead pour their money into Transformers sequels.
This show is greatness. I love it.
I look forward to watching Ms. Marvel every week.
Well I like it.
I enjoy it. I’m not ashamed.
What's the point of this post?
I don’t get it. I actually really like it, and I find the glimpse in to the Pakistani North-American diaspora to be fascinating. And the editing is really unique, I like how the environment around Kamala comes to life with her imagination. There’s a really cool sequence of her texting and the texts pop up around the environment. Also, her awkwardness is relatable. I was a cringy teenager in highschool too. Not impressed with the bad guys but apart from that it’s solid. Also, about the “wokeness”, it’s pretty obvious when Disney is *trying* to be “woke” because it feels off. Think Captain Marvel or the 2020 Mulan. This feels as if the producers have actually put a lot of time and effort in a faithful portrayal of the life and culture of a teenage superhero who is from the Pakistani-American diaspora (which… come on, if her family and life was the exact same as an anglo-saxon family *that* would be weird). Simply representing non-white, non-male people isn’t “woke”—doing it badly and superficially to check off an element of a checklist is. Those who don’t want to watch the show for the simple reason that the lead is a brown teenage girl should perhaps try to be a bit more open-minded—just because someone doesn’t *look* like you doesn’t mean there is absolutely nothing you can relate to or enjoy. Instead of going in with the opinion there’s nothing to enjoy, why not try and find things you like instead?
I actually really like ms marvel and I didn’t expect to
Someday people will learn rotten tomatoes is pointless.
What's so bad about it? I seem to fine with it
I love this show. I was like wow, they made a comic with a Muslim Pakistani girl that talked about The Partition with djinn elements? And this was post 9\11?!?!?!? I was frakking floored. I didn't think it was possible! I started googling things to see if I slipped into an alternate universe.🤭🤭🤭
It's a fun show. You should give it a chance. -a 45 year old dude
I just read that Ms. Marvel has more watchers than Peacemaker.
I'll watch it soon as all the episodes are out.
It shouldnt matter how many people are watching for some rare shows. Sometimes the love towards the show matters. Like AOS was loved by its medium size fanbase. Same for this show.
I’ve been watching it. But it isn’t very good 🤷🏻♂️
The sad truth about rotten tomatoes is that it's a niche group of people. It doesn't actually represent the whole market. Regular people don't make an account and submit reviews. Sure, the rotten tomato crowd thinks it's good... but the market as a whole clearly doesn't. I saw a comment that says viewership is 100,000. So clearly rotten tomatoes doesn't even account for the entire group of fans who like it, considering RT only has less than 6000 fan reviews.
Anything that has a high critic score and a middling audience score is always complete self-indulgent garbage.
I’m watching and I’m loving it.
I think the show is really well done.
Plenty of people watch it but because it's about a muslim girl instead of a white man all the racist misogynistic bigots have to scream and cry about it.
The show is great. It has some amazing visual design.
Imagine that, a critical darling that's a commercial failure! This must be the first!
Honestly, I gave the show a chance and it just isn’t very good. The acting is bad all around and the characters are kind of unlikable. The action is also almost cringe inducing to watch. I watched Episode 4 last night and I think I’m done.
I think viewership is maybe the wrong question. Disney doesn't get paid per watch for these shows. What matters is if those viewers are left with a desire to continue subscribing and paying money. I watched Hawkeye, Boba Fett, Moon Knight and Obi Wan and I didn't really like them. I still finished the shows, but with every bad show I watch I start to think, do I really need this subscription? Ms. Marvel isn't perfect, but it's left me feeling a lot more optimistic about the quality of future Disney Plus shows, and I would guess that this is true of a lot of people.
Disney has enough dough to wait out the rebellion of the nerd white male squirming because they're not the single target of the franchises.
I'm a nerd white male and I think the show is really fun.
The show has a female lead and one of the first Disney production to have a Muslim lead: no critics that want to keep his/her job is going to shit on it.
I like the show. Finally a brown person. Was kinda annoyed that most of the hero’s were white or western. Like what, did the rest of world not have heroes? Glad they moved away from that with Black Panther, Shang Chi, and now this. The only ones hurt are those who just wanna see white people in their shows.
I just felt too old watching it tbh
Rotten tomatoes is a joke my man
Man that title is depressing as hell. Just the idea that there are probably people who genuinely think like that makes me sad.
Sure, nobody watches it. That’s how so many people always know what to complain about every week.
To be honest, who has ever given a shit about ms marvel? Hard to compete with more iconic characters
As a white cis male I still love Ms marvel. So what if she is brown. She is a girl that has to discover herself just like anybody else. Also I learned something about India/Pakistan
I've been wanting to watch the show. I'm just kind of burnt out on marvel at the moment. I watched all the movies again to get ready for multiverse of madness and with all the other marvel shows that have come out I think I just need a break before getting back into it. I'll probably watch all this show about the time She-Hulk is coming out.
People online *claim* that they're not watching because they're throwing a temper tantrum. One person tweets that viewership is low, then every article cites that tweet as a source and says that numbers are "reportedly" low. You have no idea what the actual viewership numbers are. Disney hasn't said. Reviewers - who *did* watch it - loved it.
Im enjoying it..
I've watched a few episodes and enjoyed it. However I hate not being able to binge so generally wait until most of the run is completed then watch. I do this with most episodic content now.
its a great show im really enjoying it