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*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/arcane) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If anyone’s looking.
Anything specific you ABSOLUTELY NEED to get off your chest that maybe you haven’t seen anyone else discussing before?
I’m a great listener! 💖💖
If not for his daughter, Marcus probably wouldn't care how dangerous Silco was to the world around them. His only care would be making sure that he personally doesn't get in trouble with either of his bosses — the only reason he even considered sacrificing himself for as long as he did was because he didn't want his daughter to grow up in a world with dangerous people like Silco in it.
TLDR: As someone in a Youtube comment once said, Marcus is constantly making bad decisions to protect his daughter from the consequences of his bad decisions.
This fits well with one of S1's main themes - "Is there anything so undoing as a daughter". Parents making wrong decisions for the right reasons (at least ACCORDING TO THEM) to protect their daughters (and sons). Vander, Ambessa, Silco, Marcus and Mrs. Kiramman all highlight this in different ways.
Finally had enough free time in the past couple of days to finish this off!
Well, first off, thank you very much for asking me a question about him, I’ve never had a discussion about the character before since the show’s first release except for within my own head and a sort-of one with a close friend. (I’ve managed to run into/find a couple other people that have the Marcus flair before but it was my own fault/decision for not wanting to start a discussion about the character at those times.) So since I’ve got a lot of passionate feelings and ideas I’ve had saved up for so long I’ll maybe try to abridge (by my standards) everything I say, since if someone caught me in the right mood I’m sure I could probably talk AT people about him for 48 hours with 8 hours worth of unrepeated information, although I don’t feel like I’m in one of those moods so I think we’ll be fine but I’ll try anyway, forgive me for going on so long already.
So, a big thing about my love for the character is how well he’s written just like the rest of the cast, (yet having a fraction of the time dedicated to him as most of the characters in the series have) while still having plenty of room for personal interpretation (due to said fraction of screen time). (Especially considering we don’t know the extent of his change after Pt1,) Marcus’s values, (famously pretty much just his daughter), ideals and aspirations, (serving Piltover and fighting crime, or just Zaun/the undercity’s suffering and destitute that he’s been taught from his culture to unquestionably hate. Looks up to Grayson before he believes she is corrupted, and then goes back to looking up to her after realising his mistake), and regrets, (he keeps the bloody coin), but between and in addition to all this clear characterisation there is more than enough room for unique interpretation, personal head canons and even subjective instincts and gut-judgements.
One person could write a gargantuan essay on why Marcus is the most evil character in the story, a self-pitying, selfish, self-serving classist over-zealous brute who likes to think he is a hero, or wallowing about how he could have been a true hero if the stars had aligned while never actually stepping up to be despite it never being too late as well as/or hiding behind his daughter as the reassurance to why it was all possibly worth it, who probably also enjoys taking Silco’s money deep down while he’s at it. (PT 1 of three cause I had an issue sending the whole thing.)
(Edit: It was paragraphing unsurprisingly, it’s much below my usual standard but I just wanted to finally get it out to ya.)
And another person could write a gargantuan essay about why he’s a borderline goodie-goodie, who did what we all would do if put in the same situations, and while the massive amount of guilt from his past mistakes are certainly a big part of his life and a big weight, he uses it as motivation to do the right things in his job and life and do what Grayson would’ve done very well. (And there’s not really anything that’s irrefutable proof that he couldn’t have gone from, yikes, aiming a gun at children who were attempting to escape. To as understandable as all the other well and widely loved characters) It’s even possible he could’ve even fought his prejudices after Part 1 so much to the point that they’re mostly gone, for lack of a more eloquent way to put it, for all we know. (It’s certainly possible that Grayson didn’t just have her deals with Vander to keep peace between the two sides, but did also have at least some level of positive opinion on the undercity and its residents since we never see her express any distaste or fear for them like many or even most of the people we meet from her side of town, she also clearly expresses sympathy for Vander and his like’s position, and I mean come on, does she just generally even seem like the type to openly or even internally have hatred for Zaun and its people? Is there any little barely noticeable things that together subconsciously infer that? We have no evidence to suggest so, and she seems very levelheaded and selfless, which one could take as evidence to the contrary. So if Marcus were to attempt to greatly emulate and keep up the legacy of his predecessor, it just seems logical to me that he’d at least try to be more compassionate to Zaunites if that’s what his “good woman” of a predecessor would have done, seen as he would seem to want to keep up his predecessor’s work likely to the letter just to make sure everything worked out ok like it was uneasily doing before he stepped in and “ruined it all”.)
And again, these are just examples of the most extreme opinions either way someone could have that I’m using as a demonstration to articulate how both extremes seem understandable and plausible no matter what your opinion is. You could be someone who has one of those two extremes as their interpretation, but I think it would be very hard to find much if any piece of evidence that would even slightly help to disprove the other. I know you can’t “disprove” an interpretation, that’s a simply awful word to use in this context, and most contexts, that’s the absolutely stunning beauty of interpretation, but what I’m saying is most of the characters in Arcane are given enough screen time and clear, well defined context that there’s definitely a clear general consensus on that character’s values motivations ideals flaws bonds goals, there’s certainly plenty of people somewhere who have so so brilliant interpretations of the main-est most popular characters that go against what most would take from them, even if it only differs slightly, but there’s definitely a consensus on how each character would act in most situations, Marcus doesn’t have that. Marcus can be just as understandable, noble, and good by Arcane standards as Vi, Jayce or similar characters or the most despicable character in the series AND I LOVE IT. (PT 2.)
So, to finally answer your amazing question after that massive block of hopefully necessary information. While I do still like Simpson17866’s interpretation A LOT, (and the quote that’s not how I personally interpreted it the times I’ve watched it. That’s simply just not what my gut judgement says about the character personally, if I’m being completely bluntly honest. And in addition to that, a more logical, as in, a way in which is much easier and more solid to explain in words, is that my mind whenever I contemplate the series also tend to lean towards him being tragically good-natured while not completely indulging in self-pity to the point of being a bad person. (I also much prefer these ideas because not only going quite extreme into the “he’s awful” end makes it infinitely more boring, and looking at it in much more nuanced ways brings up so many questions about humanity and gives so much for us to ponder about why we sympathise with a character like that, and it also makes his end much more tragic and conjures up much more complex feelings than just the “oh well that happened” that I’m sure even someone who passionately loves to hate the character could have as their reaction and opinion.) And after thinking about it for a while, I think he would, or at least and perhaps more accurately I think there is a higher chance he would over the alternative. I’d give it a 70/30-80/20% chance in favour of yes, he would, I too have also seen the original quote from the YouTube Comment of “Marcus is constantly making bad decisions to protect his daughter from the consequences of his bad decisions” or another other person saying it here on Reddit or somewhere else and that does describe everything PERFECTLY. But, I don’t personally agree that Marcus wouldn’t care how dangerous Silco was to the world around them, or that his only care would be making sure he personally doesn’t get into trouble, it’s clear that pretty much no matter what interpretation you prefer he does care for the lives of others, even if maybe just those of Piltover, after the Progress Day bombing, he not only clearly struggles at the funeral, but certainly isn’t completely 100% under Silco’s boot, he makes his displeasure very known at their meeting, arguably even to an extent which is putting himself in danger. I think if anything he’d try too hard to be “heroic”, overcorrecting you could say. I’d even go as far as say it seems much more in line with his character and especially my personal interpretation of his character that he’d be obsessed with atoning, and being a hero for his daughter and people, and I find it very hard to see that person without probably the one thing that gives him joy in life and probably the one thing that keeps him going as something to look after not pulling the pin just to look after himself. He’s so often misguidedly selfless, and I find it very easy to see that person pulling that pin out of a sense of nobility or a noble end, or being so broken. It’s one situation where a broken man could still pull the pin just the same as someone who feels they are in the prime of their purpose to me. I think there is still definitely a distinct chance he still wouldn’t though, hence the 30/20%, he could for example not just incase his replacement is even more susceptible to manipulation or corruption than he was, through naivety, cowardice, selfishness, greed or anything else, he could also of course stop himself because of Silco being a hydra, his death would not only be a power vacuum that would be filled again sooner or later, but the conflicts during said power vacuum could end up catastrophic in a multitude of ways. But I can still see many many outcomes where he pulls it despite the risks, or many many where he feels the good to come from the action outweighs those risks.
So sorry for throwing that massive info dump that I didn’t know I had in me on you, it’s even more evidence of the show’s vast quality of how I can gush about all the people who worked on the show and their execution of one of the characters who is in no marketing at all!
Thank you for asking such a brilliant question too. It’s a question I’d actually never been able to figure out what I thought would’ve happened since the show’s release/my first viewing, and you asking it got me to finally realise what I think would’ve happened! (PT 3, final part, thankfully, I know lol.)
Look, you ever need a place to vent out your "passionate feelings and ideas", you can always DM me. Don't worry if you think it's too long or too strange, I'll go through it nevertheless. We may or may not end up agreeing with everything but that's what discussions are about - a chance to explore other people's perspectives about a certain topic.
About Marcus-I am going to be honest, I never thought too deeply about Marcus. I felt his ideals and motivations to be rather straightforward and easy to understand, and I found him to be the most predictable character in the show (I can hear your frustration but please wait for it). Marcus may seem to be a "simpler" character when compared to the rest of the characters in Arcane, but when compared to the rest of fiction, Marcus is actually pretty nuanced and complex. You see, Arcane offered to us (arguably) the very best in every category- We got worlds that felt connected yet distant. We got music from completely different genres that meshed well with both the plot and the scenes. We got oil-pastel like animation that had depth and thus a three-dimensional effect. We had characters who would react like real people to situations. We had characters who would actually get hurt instead of being protected by plot armour. Every scene was important in some way meaning there were no filler scenes. The storyline effortlessly weaved between light banter and emotionally heartbreaking scenes.
When the audience received such a (arguably) well-rounded show, expectations of every aspect were bound to be high. The bar was set higher than normal as people slowly got accustomed to the beauty of this masterpiece. People expected great things from every character and were rewarded so for the most part. In all this, Marcus got the short end of the stick. It wasn't that he was a bad character in of itself (He is an excellent character in fact); it's just that all the other characters were more complex/deep/relatable. They had more to offer in every way - partly due to their higher screen time and partly because the narrative was focused on them and their arcs.
All this while, I too barely thought of Marcus for I was busy appreciating and analysing all the different aspects of Arcane. But your answer (especially PT1 and 2), has made me reconsider my opinions and has made me realise that perhaps there is more to this Sheriff than I originally thought.
(End of Part 1)
I realised I skipped a bit before the last paragraph in Part 1 so here you go:
In comparison to the "more interesting" storylines of the more major characters, Marcus' story seemed to be a rather common trope (at least for most audiences) seen countless times. Once a character begins to fit a certain pattern, people's interest in them dwindles rapidly.
On a superficial level, it's the story of a cop at a higher authority taking hush money from a kingpin who was actually pulling all the strings behind the curtains. But once you dig deep and begin to factor in Marcus' prejudices, his guilt and self-loathing, his attachments and remorse, you get a rather unique and much overlooked story altogether. If this was a law and order show with Marcus getting more of the spotlight, audiences would have sympathized with him so much more. All it would have taken was presenting the same narrative from a different perspective.
Nonetheless, Marcus is a very relatable and complex (albeit underrated) character in comparison to characters throughout various media - be it books, shows or movies - even though it doesn't feel as apparent in the context of Arcane (due to the reasons I mentioned above).
So sorry, only just thought now to let you know I’ve been writing a response, turns out there’s a lot I have to say in answer to such a brilliant question! What I’m writing’s nearly done, I think it should be done at most in 2 days. I’m going on a long ferry trip today so I’ve been hoping I’ll get a lot done then. Thank you for your patience. 💖
Also it’s my first time seeing a Huck fan and I’m so happy I finally found one! 💖
No worries. If it were up to me, I would have taken 2 days even without any trip. Take your time and enjoy your journey.
As for Huck, he was the literal representation of the fall of the undercity. He was once a meek businessman who had friends like Vander to back him up on his deals. When Silco took over the lanes, people in the undercity could no longer rely on the community which had once existed under Vander's leadership. They were forced to fend for themselves. Some managed; others like Huck fell behind.
Even before the lanes fell, Huck seemed to have been pushed over a lot as seen by his nervous behaviour back in episode 1. Once he had to do deals on his own without Vander's support, he was probably scammed many a times - this caused him to feel resentful and powerless.
Huck also struggled with issues of self-worth - "I just wanted to feel what it was like to be somebody." He was tired of being thrown around. He wanted "To make other people feel afraid instead of \[me\]." He thought perhaps the wonder drug, he was hearing about, would allow him to stand up for himself. There would eventually be many in the lanes, like Huck, who would end up enslaved to Shimmer.
His addiction was so absolute it would cause him to betray the daughter of the very man who once saved his life.
Huck's tragedy is reflected in the real world too. Many people start drinking and smoking to relieve themselves of stress and to stop feeling negative, but end up with lasting addiction, sometimes to the point where they would give up their dignity for just a taste.
Thank you so much, truly. I’d actually hoped you’d say that but I didn’t expect to cause ya know this being Reddit and all, ya can’t get your hopes up for stuff like that. Stay yourself, keep putting positivity out in this world, even just meeting someone say something small like that makes my week at the very least amount of time every time. 💖
And as for your amazing writing and explanation about Huck, you just put how and why I like the character and how and why he’s an awesome character so so perfectly! I can’t see how anyone could do any better! And I think us fans of the little talked about characters of a series with so many constantly talked about amazing characters should form a club and stick together haha! 💖
I really wanna talk about the things Vi regrets. I don't think it's brought up enough.
She was stuck in prison, spent 7(?) years thinking about her one mistake over and over again. When she got out, the first thing she did once off Cait's leash was look for Powder.
We talk about Powder's pain, but Vi is in pain, too.
I'm starting to realize I might not love Arcane specifically. I'm in love with Vi and all the things she comes with. She just oozes confidence and power.
I just watched Georgia Dow's therapist analysis of Vi, and it really adds way more depth than I would have realized.
I can definitely relate to some extent. Probably wouldn't be so obsessed with Arcane if I wasn't so inherently obsessed with Vi (and Caitlyn, in minor part). There's a lot of other video essays that do really interesting character analysis of Vi, I'd be happy to link it to you if you want!
Here's my favorites, maybe you already saw them but I always love to recommend ❤️
[how arcane writes women](https://youtube.com/watch?v=hML-FGHGEN4&feature=share&si=EMSIkaIECMiOmarE6JChQQ), this one talks about all the women in arcane, I found Vi and Caitlyn's analysis particularly interesting
[another in depth character analysis ](https://youtube.com/watch?v=jOB09hM8ZF4&feature=share&si=EMSIkaIECMiOmarE6JChQQ)
Since you mentioned Georgia Dow I'm not gonna link her video, assuming you already saw them. Most Vi videos are made analyzing her in relationship with other characters (Caitlyn, Jinx, Sevika), so the ones where only she is taken in consideration are just a few. I'll add more if they come to mind!
Part 2
[REUPLOAD FOR CONVENIENT ACCESS]
In Act 1, Marcus is introduced as a brash and impulsive youth who is second-in-command to the Sheriff of Piltover, Grayson. He has a strong prejudice against the people of the Undercity, even referring to them as "trencher trash". To him there are only two kinds of people - the perfect, polished residents of Piltover and the uncouth, uncivilized scum of the Undercity. He makes no attempt to hide his contempt while interacting with people in the Lanes. This is evident when he calls Vander thick headed, tries to coerce one of "trenchers" to help him locate those responsible for the attack on Jayce's workshop, and also when he threatens to "bury" everyone at the Last Drop.
The relationship between Marcus and Grayson is an interesting parallel to the relationship between Vi and Vander. Both Marcus and Vi have a mentor figure (Grayson and Vander respectively) who they deeply respect. On one hand, Vi hates the topsiders for their comfortable lives in comparison to the harsh conditions of the Undercity.
>They've got plenty, while we're down here scraping together coins.
On the other hand, Marcus is disgusted by the Undercity.
>You think you are standing up for something, but we all know there is a crime behind every coin that passes through this place.
Both Vander and Grayson compromise with each other to preserve the peace on either side. Both of them have no particular hatred towards to the other side and are aware of the sacrifices required to maintain order. Neither Marcus nor Vi are satisfied how passively their mentors are handling the situation as is evident in the following lines.
Vi:
>When did you get so comfortable living in someone else's shadow?
Marcus (after Grayson confronts him for going to the Last Drop):
>I was getting results!
Both the youths fail to see the long term consequences (due to their inexperience) and decide to take matter into their hands. Marcus makes a deal with Silco while Vi uses Grayson's transmitter to try and turn herself over to the Enforcers. What the two could never have anticipated were the tragic consequences of their actions.
Seeing Marcus take the bait, Silco springs his trap, killing the Sheriff and capturing Vander to further his plan. We see no glee, only horror and disbelief in Marcus' eyes, as he cries out:
>What the hell have you done? This wasn't the deal!
He could only stare in shock as Silco tosses him a pouch of coins, realising how he had been used as a pawn. Apart from the beautiful imagery of one of the coins falling into a pool of blood, this scene is ironic in the fact that Marcus had predicted his own future while threatening the people at the Last Drop.
>You people down here are all the same, mistaking arrogance for bravery. You think you are standing up for something, but we all know there is a crime behind every coin that passes through this place.
Part 3
[REUPLOAD FOR CONVENIENT ACCESS]
The writers of Arcane use a lot of visual cues while telling their character's stories. In fact, the answers to many questions about Marcus' motivations and intentions can be interpreted from his body language.
DID MARCUS ENJOY DOING SILCO'S DEEDS?
Whenever Marcus dealt with Silco, we never saw him smiling or satisfied. He always had a grim expression and scowled with annoyance. He never hesitated to express his displeasure to comply with Silco.
>What if I'm not interested in playing along?
The way Marcus shook his head in disbelief and flung Silco's pouch of coins to the ground (Ep 3) showed the helplessness and disgust he felt on realising he had played into Silco's hands.
On returning home (Ep 6), he gave himself a look of pure loathing in the mirror before slamming his Sheriff badge on the mantelpiece. This is not the behaviour of a man who enjoys his job, but rather of one who hates himself and is unsatisfied with the current state of matters.
A man satisfied with his job would not contemplate killing his "boss" with a grenade, even though it could cost him his life.It's clear that Marcus never enjoyed working with Silco.
WAS MARCUS A GOODIE-GOODIE?
Throughout the years, Marcus' prejudice and hate towards the Undercity never waned. From his perspective, all he gained from his involvement with Silco were problems. There was never anything positive he witnessed about the Lanes. It was the very reason he lost Grayson. His hatred is apparent when he shoots Ekko without hesitation but struggled to shoot Caitlyn. To him, Ekko was just another "sump-rat" and a liability.
Marcus may have been extremely prejudiced but he wasn't a man without conscience. The way he had his head bowed in shame while visiting Grayson's grave, combined with the fact that Marcus had kept the blood-stained coin, highlight his guilt over his mentor's death. It also seemed that he carried the coin everywhere, just like his regret. His restless foot-tapping along with his accusatory tone while complaining to Silco about the Progress Day bombing, show how uneasy he felt over the loss of his comrades. In fact, he was so aggressive that Silco's men had to push him back into his seat.
Marcus had a flawed view of the Undercity which is understandable from his point of view. However, he was extremely loyal to Topside. This is in complete contrast to how Silco viewed the two sides. If Silco can be forgiven for his perspective (again, understandable from his point of view) why can't the same be said for Marcus? Marcus was no angel but he wasn't evil incarnate either. He was flawed, just like all the other characters.
DID MARCUS HIDE BEHIND HIS DAUGHTER AS AN EXCUSE FOR HIS ACTIONS?
Marcus didn't use his daughter as an excuse for his actions. He had no one to make his excuses to. No one knew about his involvement with Silco, not even the Enforcers, as he always travelled alone whenever he made deals with Silco. He genuinely cared about his daughter. Just like Silco used the ashtray Jinx made for him, Marcus also kept his daughter's drawing on his office table. The only time we see Marcus genuinely afraid is when Silco visits Ren (his daughter) as a veiled threat to Marcus. In fact, it is the only time he doesn't talk back to Silco or make his annoyance known. Even in his dying moments all he could think about was his daughter.
>Tell my daughter...
However, Marcus didn't just care about his daughter.
In Ep 3, he could have just gone back to Topside with Silco's money. Instead he followed, Silco back to his lair, despite knowing that Silco had a beast capable of ripping a man to shreds. Whether he planned on rescuing Vander or exacting revenge on Silco for his mentor's death is up to interpretation.
He also stopped Vi from going to Powder and consequently losing her life to Silco, despite the fact that she was a "trencher".
>He'll kill you if he hears you.
We know he didn't capture her as a scapegoat as there was no record of her in the prison files. The exact reason as to why he saved Vi is unclear but it is evident that he did not do it for a selfish reason.
It seems that Marcus wouldn't hesitate to do the right thing as long as it wouldn't harm his daughter.
And all of them seem to exist only on the Internet, at least for me
However, seeing how the success of Avengers : Infinity War made Endgame so mainstream makes me hopeful about the global reach of Arcane in S2.
Most of the really interesting discussions here happened during the first couple of months after the release. I guess we have to wait until S2 to have something new to talk about.
The funny thing about discussing the show with people in real life is, that it's actually not that fruitful. I talked with someone who likes the show, but since we agreed on everything the "discussion" was over pretty quickly.
Talking to people who have seen the show and be like "It's pretty nice" ends up in a monologue that makes you look like a crazy fangirl.
And finally, talking to poeple who have not seen the show also ends up in a monologue about how awesome Arcane is and that they should watch it.
Personally, I don't mind looking like a crazy little fangirl ahahah especially when the monologues come from people that love the show just like me and might have some very interesting points of view about things I didn't even consider, or maybe they do share my same ideas but can expose them way better than I would. I think talking about it on the internet is definitely better! At least we know we're talking with people that are at least interested in the subject
**NO SPOILERS:** This post should not contain any spoilers from Arcane or Riot Games Lore. All discussion of such spoilers can be removed without warning, even if they have been hidden with spoiler syntax. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/arcane) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If anyone’s looking. Anything specific you ABSOLUTELY NEED to get off your chest that maybe you haven’t seen anyone else discussing before? I’m a great listener! 💖💖
Will come back to this if I have time.
💖🥰 Awesome! Wonderful!
It's my first time seeing a Marcus fan. Do you think Marcus would have used the bomb Silco gave him if not for his daughter?
If not for his daughter, Marcus probably wouldn't care how dangerous Silco was to the world around them. His only care would be making sure that he personally doesn't get in trouble with either of his bosses — the only reason he even considered sacrificing himself for as long as he did was because he didn't want his daughter to grow up in a world with dangerous people like Silco in it. TLDR: As someone in a Youtube comment once said, Marcus is constantly making bad decisions to protect his daughter from the consequences of his bad decisions.
This fits well with one of S1's main themes - "Is there anything so undoing as a daughter". Parents making wrong decisions for the right reasons (at least ACCORDING TO THEM) to protect their daughters (and sons). Vander, Ambessa, Silco, Marcus and Mrs. Kiramman all highlight this in different ways.
Finally had enough free time in the past couple of days to finish this off! Well, first off, thank you very much for asking me a question about him, I’ve never had a discussion about the character before since the show’s first release except for within my own head and a sort-of one with a close friend. (I’ve managed to run into/find a couple other people that have the Marcus flair before but it was my own fault/decision for not wanting to start a discussion about the character at those times.) So since I’ve got a lot of passionate feelings and ideas I’ve had saved up for so long I’ll maybe try to abridge (by my standards) everything I say, since if someone caught me in the right mood I’m sure I could probably talk AT people about him for 48 hours with 8 hours worth of unrepeated information, although I don’t feel like I’m in one of those moods so I think we’ll be fine but I’ll try anyway, forgive me for going on so long already. So, a big thing about my love for the character is how well he’s written just like the rest of the cast, (yet having a fraction of the time dedicated to him as most of the characters in the series have) while still having plenty of room for personal interpretation (due to said fraction of screen time). (Especially considering we don’t know the extent of his change after Pt1,) Marcus’s values, (famously pretty much just his daughter), ideals and aspirations, (serving Piltover and fighting crime, or just Zaun/the undercity’s suffering and destitute that he’s been taught from his culture to unquestionably hate. Looks up to Grayson before he believes she is corrupted, and then goes back to looking up to her after realising his mistake), and regrets, (he keeps the bloody coin), but between and in addition to all this clear characterisation there is more than enough room for unique interpretation, personal head canons and even subjective instincts and gut-judgements. One person could write a gargantuan essay on why Marcus is the most evil character in the story, a self-pitying, selfish, self-serving classist over-zealous brute who likes to think he is a hero, or wallowing about how he could have been a true hero if the stars had aligned while never actually stepping up to be despite it never being too late as well as/or hiding behind his daughter as the reassurance to why it was all possibly worth it, who probably also enjoys taking Silco’s money deep down while he’s at it. (PT 1 of three cause I had an issue sending the whole thing.) (Edit: It was paragraphing unsurprisingly, it’s much below my usual standard but I just wanted to finally get it out to ya.)
And another person could write a gargantuan essay about why he’s a borderline goodie-goodie, who did what we all would do if put in the same situations, and while the massive amount of guilt from his past mistakes are certainly a big part of his life and a big weight, he uses it as motivation to do the right things in his job and life and do what Grayson would’ve done very well. (And there’s not really anything that’s irrefutable proof that he couldn’t have gone from, yikes, aiming a gun at children who were attempting to escape. To as understandable as all the other well and widely loved characters) It’s even possible he could’ve even fought his prejudices after Part 1 so much to the point that they’re mostly gone, for lack of a more eloquent way to put it, for all we know. (It’s certainly possible that Grayson didn’t just have her deals with Vander to keep peace between the two sides, but did also have at least some level of positive opinion on the undercity and its residents since we never see her express any distaste or fear for them like many or even most of the people we meet from her side of town, she also clearly expresses sympathy for Vander and his like’s position, and I mean come on, does she just generally even seem like the type to openly or even internally have hatred for Zaun and its people? Is there any little barely noticeable things that together subconsciously infer that? We have no evidence to suggest so, and she seems very levelheaded and selfless, which one could take as evidence to the contrary. So if Marcus were to attempt to greatly emulate and keep up the legacy of his predecessor, it just seems logical to me that he’d at least try to be more compassionate to Zaunites if that’s what his “good woman” of a predecessor would have done, seen as he would seem to want to keep up his predecessor’s work likely to the letter just to make sure everything worked out ok like it was uneasily doing before he stepped in and “ruined it all”.) And again, these are just examples of the most extreme opinions either way someone could have that I’m using as a demonstration to articulate how both extremes seem understandable and plausible no matter what your opinion is. You could be someone who has one of those two extremes as their interpretation, but I think it would be very hard to find much if any piece of evidence that would even slightly help to disprove the other. I know you can’t “disprove” an interpretation, that’s a simply awful word to use in this context, and most contexts, that’s the absolutely stunning beauty of interpretation, but what I’m saying is most of the characters in Arcane are given enough screen time and clear, well defined context that there’s definitely a clear general consensus on that character’s values motivations ideals flaws bonds goals, there’s certainly plenty of people somewhere who have so so brilliant interpretations of the main-est most popular characters that go against what most would take from them, even if it only differs slightly, but there’s definitely a consensus on how each character would act in most situations, Marcus doesn’t have that. Marcus can be just as understandable, noble, and good by Arcane standards as Vi, Jayce or similar characters or the most despicable character in the series AND I LOVE IT. (PT 2.)
So, to finally answer your amazing question after that massive block of hopefully necessary information. While I do still like Simpson17866’s interpretation A LOT, (and the quote that’s not how I personally interpreted it the times I’ve watched it. That’s simply just not what my gut judgement says about the character personally, if I’m being completely bluntly honest. And in addition to that, a more logical, as in, a way in which is much easier and more solid to explain in words, is that my mind whenever I contemplate the series also tend to lean towards him being tragically good-natured while not completely indulging in self-pity to the point of being a bad person. (I also much prefer these ideas because not only going quite extreme into the “he’s awful” end makes it infinitely more boring, and looking at it in much more nuanced ways brings up so many questions about humanity and gives so much for us to ponder about why we sympathise with a character like that, and it also makes his end much more tragic and conjures up much more complex feelings than just the “oh well that happened” that I’m sure even someone who passionately loves to hate the character could have as their reaction and opinion.) And after thinking about it for a while, I think he would, or at least and perhaps more accurately I think there is a higher chance he would over the alternative. I’d give it a 70/30-80/20% chance in favour of yes, he would, I too have also seen the original quote from the YouTube Comment of “Marcus is constantly making bad decisions to protect his daughter from the consequences of his bad decisions” or another other person saying it here on Reddit or somewhere else and that does describe everything PERFECTLY. But, I don’t personally agree that Marcus wouldn’t care how dangerous Silco was to the world around them, or that his only care would be making sure he personally doesn’t get into trouble, it’s clear that pretty much no matter what interpretation you prefer he does care for the lives of others, even if maybe just those of Piltover, after the Progress Day bombing, he not only clearly struggles at the funeral, but certainly isn’t completely 100% under Silco’s boot, he makes his displeasure very known at their meeting, arguably even to an extent which is putting himself in danger. I think if anything he’d try too hard to be “heroic”, overcorrecting you could say. I’d even go as far as say it seems much more in line with his character and especially my personal interpretation of his character that he’d be obsessed with atoning, and being a hero for his daughter and people, and I find it very hard to see that person without probably the one thing that gives him joy in life and probably the one thing that keeps him going as something to look after not pulling the pin just to look after himself. He’s so often misguidedly selfless, and I find it very easy to see that person pulling that pin out of a sense of nobility or a noble end, or being so broken. It’s one situation where a broken man could still pull the pin just the same as someone who feels they are in the prime of their purpose to me. I think there is still definitely a distinct chance he still wouldn’t though, hence the 30/20%, he could for example not just incase his replacement is even more susceptible to manipulation or corruption than he was, through naivety, cowardice, selfishness, greed or anything else, he could also of course stop himself because of Silco being a hydra, his death would not only be a power vacuum that would be filled again sooner or later, but the conflicts during said power vacuum could end up catastrophic in a multitude of ways. But I can still see many many outcomes where he pulls it despite the risks, or many many where he feels the good to come from the action outweighs those risks. So sorry for throwing that massive info dump that I didn’t know I had in me on you, it’s even more evidence of the show’s vast quality of how I can gush about all the people who worked on the show and their execution of one of the characters who is in no marketing at all! Thank you for asking such a brilliant question too. It’s a question I’d actually never been able to figure out what I thought would’ve happened since the show’s release/my first viewing, and you asking it got me to finally realise what I think would’ve happened! (PT 3, final part, thankfully, I know lol.)
Look, you ever need a place to vent out your "passionate feelings and ideas", you can always DM me. Don't worry if you think it's too long or too strange, I'll go through it nevertheless. We may or may not end up agreeing with everything but that's what discussions are about - a chance to explore other people's perspectives about a certain topic. About Marcus-I am going to be honest, I never thought too deeply about Marcus. I felt his ideals and motivations to be rather straightforward and easy to understand, and I found him to be the most predictable character in the show (I can hear your frustration but please wait for it). Marcus may seem to be a "simpler" character when compared to the rest of the characters in Arcane, but when compared to the rest of fiction, Marcus is actually pretty nuanced and complex. You see, Arcane offered to us (arguably) the very best in every category- We got worlds that felt connected yet distant. We got music from completely different genres that meshed well with both the plot and the scenes. We got oil-pastel like animation that had depth and thus a three-dimensional effect. We had characters who would react like real people to situations. We had characters who would actually get hurt instead of being protected by plot armour. Every scene was important in some way meaning there were no filler scenes. The storyline effortlessly weaved between light banter and emotionally heartbreaking scenes. When the audience received such a (arguably) well-rounded show, expectations of every aspect were bound to be high. The bar was set higher than normal as people slowly got accustomed to the beauty of this masterpiece. People expected great things from every character and were rewarded so for the most part. In all this, Marcus got the short end of the stick. It wasn't that he was a bad character in of itself (He is an excellent character in fact); it's just that all the other characters were more complex/deep/relatable. They had more to offer in every way - partly due to their higher screen time and partly because the narrative was focused on them and their arcs. All this while, I too barely thought of Marcus for I was busy appreciating and analysing all the different aspects of Arcane. But your answer (especially PT1 and 2), has made me reconsider my opinions and has made me realise that perhaps there is more to this Sheriff than I originally thought. (End of Part 1)
I realised I skipped a bit before the last paragraph in Part 1 so here you go: In comparison to the "more interesting" storylines of the more major characters, Marcus' story seemed to be a rather common trope (at least for most audiences) seen countless times. Once a character begins to fit a certain pattern, people's interest in them dwindles rapidly. On a superficial level, it's the story of a cop at a higher authority taking hush money from a kingpin who was actually pulling all the strings behind the curtains. But once you dig deep and begin to factor in Marcus' prejudices, his guilt and self-loathing, his attachments and remorse, you get a rather unique and much overlooked story altogether. If this was a law and order show with Marcus getting more of the spotlight, audiences would have sympathized with him so much more. All it would have taken was presenting the same narrative from a different perspective. Nonetheless, Marcus is a very relatable and complex (albeit underrated) character in comparison to characters throughout various media - be it books, shows or movies - even though it doesn't feel as apparent in the context of Arcane (due to the reasons I mentioned above).
So sorry, only just thought now to let you know I’ve been writing a response, turns out there’s a lot I have to say in answer to such a brilliant question! What I’m writing’s nearly done, I think it should be done at most in 2 days. I’m going on a long ferry trip today so I’ve been hoping I’ll get a lot done then. Thank you for your patience. 💖 Also it’s my first time seeing a Huck fan and I’m so happy I finally found one! 💖
No worries. If it were up to me, I would have taken 2 days even without any trip. Take your time and enjoy your journey. As for Huck, he was the literal representation of the fall of the undercity. He was once a meek businessman who had friends like Vander to back him up on his deals. When Silco took over the lanes, people in the undercity could no longer rely on the community which had once existed under Vander's leadership. They were forced to fend for themselves. Some managed; others like Huck fell behind. Even before the lanes fell, Huck seemed to have been pushed over a lot as seen by his nervous behaviour back in episode 1. Once he had to do deals on his own without Vander's support, he was probably scammed many a times - this caused him to feel resentful and powerless. Huck also struggled with issues of self-worth - "I just wanted to feel what it was like to be somebody." He was tired of being thrown around. He wanted "To make other people feel afraid instead of \[me\]." He thought perhaps the wonder drug, he was hearing about, would allow him to stand up for himself. There would eventually be many in the lanes, like Huck, who would end up enslaved to Shimmer. His addiction was so absolute it would cause him to betray the daughter of the very man who once saved his life. Huck's tragedy is reflected in the real world too. Many people start drinking and smoking to relieve themselves of stress and to stop feeling negative, but end up with lasting addiction, sometimes to the point where they would give up their dignity for just a taste.
Thank you so much, truly. I’d actually hoped you’d say that but I didn’t expect to cause ya know this being Reddit and all, ya can’t get your hopes up for stuff like that. Stay yourself, keep putting positivity out in this world, even just meeting someone say something small like that makes my week at the very least amount of time every time. 💖 And as for your amazing writing and explanation about Huck, you just put how and why I like the character and how and why he’s an awesome character so so perfectly! I can’t see how anyone could do any better! And I think us fans of the little talked about characters of a series with so many constantly talked about amazing characters should form a club and stick together haha! 💖
I really wanna talk about the things Vi regrets. I don't think it's brought up enough. She was stuck in prison, spent 7(?) years thinking about her one mistake over and over again. When she got out, the first thing she did once off Cait's leash was look for Powder. We talk about Powder's pain, but Vi is in pain, too.
If you wanna ramble about Vi, I'm your person
I'm starting to realize I might not love Arcane specifically. I'm in love with Vi and all the things she comes with. She just oozes confidence and power. I just watched Georgia Dow's therapist analysis of Vi, and it really adds way more depth than I would have realized.
I can definitely relate to some extent. Probably wouldn't be so obsessed with Arcane if I wasn't so inherently obsessed with Vi (and Caitlyn, in minor part). There's a lot of other video essays that do really interesting character analysis of Vi, I'd be happy to link it to you if you want!
Sure. Anything to scratch that itch.
Here's my favorites, maybe you already saw them but I always love to recommend ❤️ [how arcane writes women](https://youtube.com/watch?v=hML-FGHGEN4&feature=share&si=EMSIkaIECMiOmarE6JChQQ), this one talks about all the women in arcane, I found Vi and Caitlyn's analysis particularly interesting [another in depth character analysis ](https://youtube.com/watch?v=jOB09hM8ZF4&feature=share&si=EMSIkaIECMiOmarE6JChQQ) Since you mentioned Georgia Dow I'm not gonna link her video, assuming you already saw them. Most Vi videos are made analyzing her in relationship with other characters (Caitlyn, Jinx, Sevika), so the ones where only she is taken in consideration are just a few. I'll add more if they come to mind!
Wow, thanks. I see schnee has made a lot of videos on Arcane.
Part 2 [REUPLOAD FOR CONVENIENT ACCESS] In Act 1, Marcus is introduced as a brash and impulsive youth who is second-in-command to the Sheriff of Piltover, Grayson. He has a strong prejudice against the people of the Undercity, even referring to them as "trencher trash". To him there are only two kinds of people - the perfect, polished residents of Piltover and the uncouth, uncivilized scum of the Undercity. He makes no attempt to hide his contempt while interacting with people in the Lanes. This is evident when he calls Vander thick headed, tries to coerce one of "trenchers" to help him locate those responsible for the attack on Jayce's workshop, and also when he threatens to "bury" everyone at the Last Drop. The relationship between Marcus and Grayson is an interesting parallel to the relationship between Vi and Vander. Both Marcus and Vi have a mentor figure (Grayson and Vander respectively) who they deeply respect. On one hand, Vi hates the topsiders for their comfortable lives in comparison to the harsh conditions of the Undercity. >They've got plenty, while we're down here scraping together coins. On the other hand, Marcus is disgusted by the Undercity. >You think you are standing up for something, but we all know there is a crime behind every coin that passes through this place. Both Vander and Grayson compromise with each other to preserve the peace on either side. Both of them have no particular hatred towards to the other side and are aware of the sacrifices required to maintain order. Neither Marcus nor Vi are satisfied how passively their mentors are handling the situation as is evident in the following lines. Vi: >When did you get so comfortable living in someone else's shadow? Marcus (after Grayson confronts him for going to the Last Drop): >I was getting results! Both the youths fail to see the long term consequences (due to their inexperience) and decide to take matter into their hands. Marcus makes a deal with Silco while Vi uses Grayson's transmitter to try and turn herself over to the Enforcers. What the two could never have anticipated were the tragic consequences of their actions. Seeing Marcus take the bait, Silco springs his trap, killing the Sheriff and capturing Vander to further his plan. We see no glee, only horror and disbelief in Marcus' eyes, as he cries out: >What the hell have you done? This wasn't the deal! He could only stare in shock as Silco tosses him a pouch of coins, realising how he had been used as a pawn. Apart from the beautiful imagery of one of the coins falling into a pool of blood, this scene is ironic in the fact that Marcus had predicted his own future while threatening the people at the Last Drop. >You people down here are all the same, mistaking arrogance for bravery. You think you are standing up for something, but we all know there is a crime behind every coin that passes through this place.
Part 3 [REUPLOAD FOR CONVENIENT ACCESS] The writers of Arcane use a lot of visual cues while telling their character's stories. In fact, the answers to many questions about Marcus' motivations and intentions can be interpreted from his body language. DID MARCUS ENJOY DOING SILCO'S DEEDS? Whenever Marcus dealt with Silco, we never saw him smiling or satisfied. He always had a grim expression and scowled with annoyance. He never hesitated to express his displeasure to comply with Silco. >What if I'm not interested in playing along? The way Marcus shook his head in disbelief and flung Silco's pouch of coins to the ground (Ep 3) showed the helplessness and disgust he felt on realising he had played into Silco's hands. On returning home (Ep 6), he gave himself a look of pure loathing in the mirror before slamming his Sheriff badge on the mantelpiece. This is not the behaviour of a man who enjoys his job, but rather of one who hates himself and is unsatisfied with the current state of matters. A man satisfied with his job would not contemplate killing his "boss" with a grenade, even though it could cost him his life.It's clear that Marcus never enjoyed working with Silco. WAS MARCUS A GOODIE-GOODIE? Throughout the years, Marcus' prejudice and hate towards the Undercity never waned. From his perspective, all he gained from his involvement with Silco were problems. There was never anything positive he witnessed about the Lanes. It was the very reason he lost Grayson. His hatred is apparent when he shoots Ekko without hesitation but struggled to shoot Caitlyn. To him, Ekko was just another "sump-rat" and a liability. Marcus may have been extremely prejudiced but he wasn't a man without conscience. The way he had his head bowed in shame while visiting Grayson's grave, combined with the fact that Marcus had kept the blood-stained coin, highlight his guilt over his mentor's death. It also seemed that he carried the coin everywhere, just like his regret. His restless foot-tapping along with his accusatory tone while complaining to Silco about the Progress Day bombing, show how uneasy he felt over the loss of his comrades. In fact, he was so aggressive that Silco's men had to push him back into his seat. Marcus had a flawed view of the Undercity which is understandable from his point of view. However, he was extremely loyal to Topside. This is in complete contrast to how Silco viewed the two sides. If Silco can be forgiven for his perspective (again, understandable from his point of view) why can't the same be said for Marcus? Marcus was no angel but he wasn't evil incarnate either. He was flawed, just like all the other characters. DID MARCUS HIDE BEHIND HIS DAUGHTER AS AN EXCUSE FOR HIS ACTIONS? Marcus didn't use his daughter as an excuse for his actions. He had no one to make his excuses to. No one knew about his involvement with Silco, not even the Enforcers, as he always travelled alone whenever he made deals with Silco. He genuinely cared about his daughter. Just like Silco used the ashtray Jinx made for him, Marcus also kept his daughter's drawing on his office table. The only time we see Marcus genuinely afraid is when Silco visits Ren (his daughter) as a veiled threat to Marcus. In fact, it is the only time he doesn't talk back to Silco or make his annoyance known. Even in his dying moments all he could think about was his daughter. >Tell my daughter... However, Marcus didn't just care about his daughter. In Ep 3, he could have just gone back to Topside with Silco's money. Instead he followed, Silco back to his lair, despite knowing that Silco had a beast capable of ripping a man to shreds. Whether he planned on rescuing Vander or exacting revenge on Silco for his mentor's death is up to interpretation. He also stopped Vi from going to Powder and consequently losing her life to Silco, despite the fact that she was a "trencher". >He'll kill you if he hears you. We know he didn't capture her as a scapegoat as there was no record of her in the prison files. The exact reason as to why he saved Vi is unclear but it is evident that he did not do it for a selfish reason. It seems that Marcus wouldn't hesitate to do the right thing as long as it wouldn't harm his daughter.
I even see her in cars now... "Vi stands for Viper 2021 V12 Roadster"
Aaand my day has been made, thank you so much beautiful person! ❤️💖
Omg same😭 none of my friends have watched arcane despite begging them to multiple times 😂
"Loneliness is often the byproduct of a gifted mind" "We can be loners together" - Singed
Isn’t the big worry that they would watch it. But not like it. And then you would hate them?
People who watch Arcane and not like it are heartless monsters. Also, we shouldn't hate people who don't like it, we pity them.
Im hoping it becomes more mainstream popular after season 2. The amount of people who have actually seen it are too few.
And all of them seem to exist only on the Internet, at least for me However, seeing how the success of Avengers : Infinity War made Endgame so mainstream makes me hopeful about the global reach of Arcane in S2.
You're literally in a sub full of them ahahaha
Although I meant people in the real world, even in this sub people mostly just post memes and cosplays; that's not much in the way of discussion
Most of the really interesting discussions here happened during the first couple of months after the release. I guess we have to wait until S2 to have something new to talk about. The funny thing about discussing the show with people in real life is, that it's actually not that fruitful. I talked with someone who likes the show, but since we agreed on everything the "discussion" was over pretty quickly. Talking to people who have seen the show and be like "It's pretty nice" ends up in a monologue that makes you look like a crazy fangirl. And finally, talking to poeple who have not seen the show also ends up in a monologue about how awesome Arcane is and that they should watch it.
Personally, I don't mind looking like a crazy little fangirl ahahah especially when the monologues come from people that love the show just like me and might have some very interesting points of view about things I didn't even consider, or maybe they do share my same ideas but can expose them way better than I would. I think talking about it on the internet is definitely better! At least we know we're talking with people that are at least interested in the subject
You perfectly explained what I was thinking!
u/savevideo
My people! Has anyone seen Arcane Explained by John Mulaney (Crack Edit) videos? There are 3 of them and they all make me piss my pants laughing
Please link!
Part1: https://youtu.be/SuMVmCd2648 Part 2: https://youtu.be/u0qry_iPY_o Part 3: https://youtu.be/tXQkHdzQngw