T O P
Mikerobso

All of those premium features are basically the exact features Trainer Road has added in last two years.


birthdaycakefig

This sounds like something that’s meant to stop people from paying for trainer road + Zwift. I’m for this but Zwift workouts have never felt as high quality as trainer road. And their podcast also makes them feel SO legit.


StriderKeni

Their podcast is amazing but something I find really annoying when they talk about all the features about Trainer Road like there's nothing better than his platform and all works perfectly


birthdaycakefig

It’s def cultish


cornflakes34

Zwift workouts are dogshit compared to TR. I'll happily pay for Zwift + TR during the winter.


pheonixblade9

You don't like spinning at 110 cadence at 90W?


jonnyhfx

I hate having other riders around me in zwift when I’m trying to do the gimmicky workouts.. Trainer road has one goal and if you stick to the plan it will make you faster.. zwift is a fun social platform


ms_sanders

That's fair, i hate having riders around me acting weird because they're doing gimmicky workouts when i'm trying to enjoy a sim ride.


CharlieTurnover

It will make you faster IF you stick to the program AND don't burn out. So many people fail workouts because the amount of quality they prescribe is unreasonabe. To finish most of their workouts, the rider generally needs to be 100% invested every time. That's not realistic for most people. Abs, even if they are able to do it, there's a huge risk of burnout. Having said that, zwift workouts are absolute trash.


birthdaycakefig

Agreed. I enjoy the social aspect so I do my TR workouts in Zwift sometimes


timbasile

Except their workouts and plans are all sweet spot, which hasn't been exactly been shown to be optimal


mud_sweat_gears

Not optimal but way better than what Zwift offers


sticky_nicky_

TR also offers polarized training plans now. And honestly once you get past the base phase depending on what plan you’re on there is sometimes very little sweet spot.


Divtos

TrainerDay is offering polarized plans ALOT cheaper.


wskyindjar

Sure but at least they aren’t existing features that Zwift will now charge for. Seems like the existing features would remain as is.


kinboyatuwo

Yep. I am okay with that direction.


Antny5000

Isn’t the fourth bullet point something that would be taken away. Specifically, When the system says it has detected an FTP increase - it would be a bummer to lose this and have to FTP test or use Zwift power to manually adjust.


wskyindjar

Yeah possibly. But that’s something you should realistically do at least twice a year. I find it better than say what strava did and say “these features are now behind a paywall”


ChiTyP

I think Zwift is planning a feature that’s a bit more sophisticated than taking 95% of your best 20 minute power output like they currently do. TrainerRoad has been talking about exactly that during their last view ‘Ask a Cycling Coach’ podcast episodes.


2FlydeMouche

I don’t see any workout plans on the regular one? Just AI powered smart workouts on premium…


Sorry_Assignment4568

The last bullet?


dexter311

Hell, one of the features is already in Zwift.. It would have to be a significant improvement if they did this though... Like taking over Trainer Road.


joespizza2go

I mean it smells like a partnership/resell strategy.


RedBean9

That was my thought, too. The top line calls out that premium would be an additional app.


anonb1234

TrainerRoad has not had adaptive training for that long.


NuckFanInTO

“In the last 2 years” does not mean they added everything 2 years ago.


Indellow

I received an email to take part in a survey and this was a hypothetical offer they presented to me. Every time I pressed no it would ask the same again but with a lower price point for the premium package. I think if they are going to add those features then they should just be added to the standard membership. What are your thoughts?


Alternative-Junket56

That’s a standard / normal research technique for measuring price sensitivity for new features. People will always say lower than they are actually willing to pay (generally - not specifically about this).


bourbon940

Market researcher here. This was probably a price ladder study to determine the optimal price Zwift could charge for new features (i.e., potential customers x revenue, they don't care which captures the absolute most amount of customers). If there were different scenarios/benefits shown on several screens, then it may have combined a discrete choice study to decide which benefits are most influential to purchase. The grand piano question was definitely some sort of screening technique to see if you are a bot or lying lol, (since ownership of this type of piano is probably low they may remove you from results if you answer yes and fail other quality control measures).


MousyKinosternidae

\+1 they've done this before https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2020/08/zwift-considering-45-month-features-latest.html


dirtybadgermtb

Makes sense. I was trying to figure out if they thought I was a multi-millionaire that would buy a $10,000 smart bike


reneelikeshugs

Did it also ask you if you’d purchased a ~~baby~~ grand piano in the past year? [Edited a word (and added this link).](https://imgur.com/a/TuFB0K5)


Reclaim3r

lol... mine asked about the grand piano as well


birthdaycakefig

There are people that pay for both trainer road and Zwift. Something like this feels great for them. I have to say, they need to get MUCH better at workout selection and overall UX for me to ditch Trainer road plans.


modernDayKing

This


ChiTyP

Exactly. Zwift’s workout selection is just so thin. And most workouts are bananas.


Yep_why_not

This really isn’t true. They’re just not well organized. Flip through the road academy over the past few years and pull the good ones into your custom list. Ditto for GCN and some build me up plans. The problem is the good ones are spread out.


Southboundthylacine

I’m one of these people, I’d love to have just one service


dirtybadgermtb

>I have to say, they need to get MUCH better at workout selection and overall UX for me to ditch Trainer road plans. Or, just let their APIs talk to each other. For instance if you have a training plan in [TrainingPeaks it will automatically populate into Zwift](https://help.trainingpeaks.com/hc/en-us/articles/360020392591-Zwift-and-TrainingPeaks). It would be great if my TrainerRoad workouts would populate into Zwift. The Blue blocks just don't keep me engaged like riding in a simulated environment.


Yep_why_not

Mentioned this above but it’s super easy to build your own library of workouts on Zwift organized by type (FTP, VO2, SST etc). Just takes a one time effort and then you’re set forever.


bourgeoisiebrat

I don’t necessarily feel like entire new capability sets should be added free of charge. Sure, I like not paying more but, to me, that’s less important than getting a watered down experience. And, having existing staff also run something entirely new is a ticket straight to a watered down experience.


Rawb15

If I “take my workout outdoors” do I still get xp / drop credits?


timbasile

If you have a power meter, couldn't you just run Zwift on your phone anyway?


canoe_yawl

Yes, people [have done it](https://youtu.be/cd4_QwKRkdo?t=24). The best suggestion from this video is that someone should try riding the Alpe d'Huez on their bike while riding AdZ in-game, and see what happens.


praiseullr

I am fascinated by how that would turn out


dirtybadgermtb

>have done it Damn, I could have gotten to level 50 so much faster


KimJong_Bill

Data plan go brrrrrr


timbasile

Not that we should be doing this, but you only need to be connected to the internet at the start and at the end of the ride.


_idl3r

Even so there is no point to pay extra for it.


THE_Nighttrain

Premium bugs? I’m in you sunnofabitch!


tektonnic

I've been trying trainerroad on its own for the past 6 weeks, not touched zwift but not pausing my zwift sub because I've had it for 3 years, loved it and been reticent about pulling the trigger. But if you want to productively train, trainerroad is much better right now. News like this reminds me I'm a number to them, and now I'm the best kind - literally money for nothing. I'll keep an eye on what they do, but I'm pausing my sub.


SplinterCell03

Dylan Johnson has an entire video explaining why Zwift workouts are not very good. So it makes sense to go with a more serious training app like TrainerRoad. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmVZshpLaqs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmVZshpLaqs)


c_zeit_run

You may be interested in this interview I just did with the zwift training content manager. Makes their decisions pretty easy to understand. https://www.empiricalcycling.com/podcast-episodes/perspectives-6-how-to-design-a-workout-for-a-million-people-with-shayne-gaffney


Divtos

He was my coach for awhile, nice guy good coach.


TrioxinTwoFortyFive

He also has an entire video on why Trainer Road workouts are crap.


cretecreep

IIRC That video was him mostly going after TR’s SSBHV plan which is… not advisable for most people, maybe anyone. There’s actually a warning saying ~this probably isn’t for you~ but lots of people try it anyway and then blow up. It’s basically like writing a negative review of a restaurant that does a 72oz steak challenge saying their portions too big, ignoring that there’s other things on the menu


SplinterCell03

ah well in that case i give up


sticky_nicky_

Not saying Dylan doesn’t make good points in his videos on Zwift and TR but it all has to be taken with a grain of salt. Ultimately he’s trying to promote his own brand.


TrioxinTwoFortyFive

Dylan is a big proponent of polarized training. Indoor training plan companies are not big fans because it is difficult to get people to do a three hour Z2 workout, so they substitute intensity. On top of that their workouts often have a mix of intensities and segment lengths that are more designed for user engagement rather than targeting a specific energy system. The end result is the plans often have more than three interval sessions per week, more than any coach would proscribe, and not enough rest, so people tend to burn out. Some of Dylan's main criticisms are about the medium and high volume plans. It is interesting that even the owners of TR have said nearly everyone should be on the low volume plans, which is basically an acknowledgement the others are way too intense. Use the low volume plans and much of Dylan's criticisms go away.


MtnyCptn

Low volume, is just, too low of volume for me. I don’t want to pay for a coach and don’t trust myself enough to make the decisions on my own. Mid volume seems reasonable IMO - would the alternative be doing a low volume plan and just adding some Z2 rides in when I have time and TR doesn’t have anything scheduled?


TrioxinTwoFortyFive

I think one of the problems TR has is the plans are misnamed. There has been discussion of this on TR's forums. People see low volume and think, "That's not me. I am an experienced cyclist. I need at least medium volume. Maybe even high volume." But TR's low volume plans mean three to four hours of high intensity intervals per week. That is a lot of time spent doing intervals. Someone doing polarized training or even pyramidal training may have to do up to twenty hours per week before they spend that many hours doing intervals, and most people would not consider twenty hours a week as low volume.


MtnyCptn

Thank you for clarifying this. I think that with the time k have available polarized might make a lot more sense. I’ve never really understood why you would do one over the other before, but this is also the first year in a while that I haven’t been time crunched. I’m a triathlete but use a cycling specific mid volume plan. I’d be lying if I didn’t say that the weeks are really hard. I find my runs are pushing it due to the intensity of the rides. I’m going to switch back to a low volume plan and just add in endurance rides on the days where I have run intervals. Appreciate the response - thank you.


fronteir

Then what hope is there besides hiring a private coach to tailor a workout plan for you?


TrioxinTwoFortyFive

Most of Dylan's problems with Trainer Road center around the plans having too much intensity. When Dylan posted his Trainer Road video it resulted in a thousand or so posts within 24 hours on TR's forum. Essentially Dylan was echoing some of the criticisms about TR that had been bubbling under the surface for a long time, and a lot of that exploded after his video. A couple of weeks later TF introduced its adaptive training. Training Peaks has a ton of workout plans that can be imported into Zwift. Personally I like to use individual workouts that are already in Zwift. Two interval sessions a week, an endurance ride, and all the Z2 time I can manage without compromising the intensity of the interval sessions.


fronteir

OK makes sense. I have just been trying to find a good plan as I'm regaining fitness after an injury + covid, and some people say zwift is shit, do trainerroad, some say just do zwifts plans cause you're already on there, the most important thing is to stick to a plan. I'm not really doing races/super long efforts on zwift routes so I was thinking about switching to TR til I got my legs back, but just feel overwhelmed by all the opinions.


TrioxinTwoFortyFive

I liked the GCN Zero to Hero plan in Zwift because it seems designed around people's real world time constraints plus it has adequate rest. It has interval sessions on Tuesdays and Thursdays. The interval sessions are about an hour each, which fit what my butt can usually manage on a trainer. It has rest on Mondays and Wednesdays and Fridays. The weekends are used for one race and one long endurance ride. I was not interested in racing so I substituted a route or event with a lot of climbing. I also packed in Z2 or active recovery rides after intervals and on Wednesdays and Fridays when I could handle it.


cyclinglad

He also has a video why the TR are not very good. I had a talk with a cycling coach and basically they say all the same thing, way too much intensity in all these plans. You are better off buying a training plan from a legit coach and use trainingspeak to sync them with swift


LakersAndRams

Does trainer road accumulate mileage towards Strava goals etc.


tektonnic

Mileage yes, elevation no.


LakersAndRams

Thanks!


kyotonow

If you use a smart trainer Strava will record the time and mileage, along with other data like power and HR. I used to use a Kinetic on-wheel trainer with a built-in “power meter” and it didn’t record distance.


SnausageOfDoom

>I'm with you until "News like...". Nothing is changing for current subscribers, so I'm confused by your reaction.


TomRiha

What I’m reading is “would you pay extra if we bought and integrated trainer road” my answer is absolutely


zjbordeau

Agreed. Zwift and TR user here. It would be awesome to not stare at blue bars all the time while also feeling like my work out is productive while zwifting. Integration would be great for both platforms imo.


alt-227

Have you tried [importing your TR workouts into Zwift](https://github.com/pchalacis/trainerroad-to-trainingpeaks)?


team_extreme

Omg I didn’t know this existed! This says to training peaks though, is there a zwift one? Please and thank you!


HelicopterNatural

lets just say..... from what i know...... you are hitting the nail on the head...


tronaldbont

Typical Zwift, bolt more and more crap on and don't fix the underlying issues.... I have doubts that Zwift will nail the adaptive training like TrainerRoad has.


modernDayKing

Exactly


bgraham111

For what I pay today, and what I get, I'm already on the fence.


swimbikerun91

I’ll pay for premium if it allows me to boot the cheaters out of races


lamagy

How do people cheat?


swimbikerun91

Put your weight at 40kg and fly around at 7w/kg


oxnar

Or ride around with an uncalibrated trainer


chinchillah_killah

They need to let you downvote other riders, enough downvotes, boom you're out


techorules

But then you’d create an incentive for people to downvote for no other reason than to vote off riders who are legitimately faster. I agree that crowdsourcing could be one way to ban cheats but to me that couldn’t be the driving reason and be fair


kinboyatuwo

They already do. If enough people flag a flyer in the app it boots them. I believe they still see the same screen but they are gone and off results.


tibass84

Only premium I’m willing to pay is to get family membership. When will they offer that? It’s ridiculous to have to pay twice the regular fee for my wife and I…!


liftbigdata

Interesting.. If the quality of the programs are as good as TR, then it might be worth it. I'd been using Zwift as more of a visualizer for my TR workouts lately anyway. (I've since cancelled Zwift as I rarely do actual Zwift rides anymore)


ipilotete

One big reason Trainer Road is good is they have a good team of developers that appreciate and listen to their customers. Have a question, they’ll get you a good detailed answer that day. Even if it’s technical and they have to have a programmer answer the question. Find a problem? It’s fixed within days. Zwift on the other hand maintains a big firewall between them and customers and always takes the “customer is wrong” stance from the start. I’d hate to see them dig into Trainer Road’s user base by only flexing their much larger platform.


EmDashxx

Yes. So much this. I’ve become a better cyclist not just because of the training platform but because the podcast, the content, the thoughtful interaction with people asking questions, etc. It’s more than just “training” and you won’t ever get that with Zwift.


liftbigdata

Yup, definitely appreciate that they started offering polarized plans as well now.


Mrjlawrence

I’m skeptical they will be as good as TR not the TR is perfect


Ronald_Ulysses_Swans

Zwift premium looks like basically trainerroad Adaptive training programmes so it won’t affect the current offering. I don’t think people should get too upset about this unless you work for trainerroad.


MommaB_

Seeing Zwift's time lines of adding features to their app I wouldn't be too scared for my job if I were with TR


chinchillah_killah

and really, just the quality of their 'workout' features compared to TR. I still have both subscriptions because I don't consider Zwift's workouts to be competitive at all. They suck. I use Zwift for the racing, it's great for that.


kto25

This. I have no faith Zwift would both implement this new feature and make the workouts and plans as smart/well thought out as TR. Honestly, they should just buy TR. I'd at least pay $35 a month for that program (since that's what zwift/TR already costs me)


modernDayKing

Man. Their UI and software in general can be so kludgy and idk why.


Grego1234

This x 100


swelteh

If you were Zwift, would you develop this offering or would you acquire trainer road?


Pascalwb

But usually new features are added to premium account. Not just crating another higher premium level.


AZQK19200

Yeah, I would be slightly concerned if I were named Nate.


wistoon33

Why. Zwift hasn’t shown itself capable of really doing anything well. Their current plans and workouts are a joke.


DoubleBlackBSA24

Because if they weren't slightly concerned and zwift pulls it off, they lose a massive amount of niche market share. You don't live as a company by not taking note of big competitors prospects and aspirations. Just like Zwift is looking to expand to hardware and into better training plans as rouvy, rgt are on scene.


bigchi1234

Sounds like Systm to me. They interviewed the guys at system as part of their last big update and one of the items mentioned was being able to take your workout outside. All the other adaptive stuff is how system works too.


velorumpshaker

Depends if it’s done well enough to replace the desire for a 3rd party platform such as TR or SUF etc. One less piece of software to manage. It would have to be substantially better than what’s in the game now.


DerpageOnline

all these bonus features are a bunch of marketing buzzwords for 5 if/else the programmers bludgeoned together. Not to mention the automatic FTP detection is already there, so they'd be cutting from the 15$ subscription? Lol How about they fix their atrocious UX before asking for more money. Why can't i go back to the menu without first logging all the way out and having to reconnect all my bluetooth devices? Why do i need to start a ride to look at my wardrobe? Lots of people here mention trainer road. Which doesn't seem to have group rides, organisation, races, fun. Would never switch, the social aspect is the only reason i'm cycling indoor at all. Just look at this [https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling-group-workouts/](https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling-group-workouts/). I ain't cycling on zoom, staring into a bunch of panting faces instead of a 3d landscape.


kto25

People are mentioning TR because what you're calling "marketing buzzwords" are real, functional features that TR already offers. That zoom workout feature is nuts though. LOL. Who would ever do that? The last thing I want to do is watch someone work out.


xxGreyWormxx

I do group rides here in Boston and because it's too cold to ride with the homies, some of us do group rides with video via WhatsApp or Discord. We laugh and catch up during the recovery portions and laugh at each other when the training gets demanding. Not for everyone, but we're social beasts after all.


Skellingtoon

When TR had ‘standard’ plans, I did group workouts with my teammates fairly regularly. However, with adaptive training, we never have the same workouts any more. However, they are working in group workouts with different workouts - not sure when that’s launching. That will suit my team again, so we’ll probably use it again.


TungstenTurban

You can disable adaptive training and just do a regular plan if you want the same workouts.


DerpageOnline

Everything marketed as AI is bullshit, and will be for many years to come. Sure, you're getting recommendations, but there isn't anything smart behind them beyond the algorithms somebody put in for turning your measurements into adjustments to a very limited set of variables. Knowing Zwifts current software quality, i have my doubts they're going to suddenly turn into an AI behemoth lol.


modernDayKing

We run Zwift on zoom and now discord and it makes it much more enjoyable.


cubenz

Just started on Zwift, and agree on the UX - shockingly hard to access anything. All set up and review features should be available before riding, and easy to access afterwards.


cornflakes34

Zwift is for fun and socializing, TR is a dedicated training platform similar to other programs like Wahoo and Training Peaks.


Tridavis

Hey as a ride leader, how about them fixing the damn fence 1st.


daugherd

If they want to generate revenue then they just need to add a dope battlepass with tons of skins and cosmetics. My character has been the same for ages and I’d totally spend $ on making my cyclist more interesting to look at.


Ericreese1991

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I only use Zwift because it’s 15/month. If it ever reaches 20/month or higher I’d just go to trainerroad because it’s higher quality. That 5$ is LITERALLY the only reason I use it


TrioxinTwoFortyFive

At this point I would not trust Zwift to deliver any of the "premium" features. On top of that I like the FTP tests as a way of gauging where I sit and would not like those being eliminated in favor of only automatic detection. The training plan features they are proposing are features they should have built into the current training plans years ago. How hard is it to look at Training Peaks and Trainer Road and say, "That is the competition. We need to have those features." As it is I think many people would be happy if Zwift could just add the simple ability to pause a training plan. Give us something as easy as that before promising stuff that will probably never get added anyway.


who_am_I__who_are_u

These cheeky mf's cant even get the base game right. This game has countless bugs which they refuse to acknowledge or fix. * Runs like shit on PC's(Uses the same amount of CPU utilization to run AAA games) * Group workout bugs. * Have to input Nuclear launch codes to fiddle with your OWN workout plan.(" oh you wanna start your workout plan right now? Tough. You are starting tomorrow") * Their workout plans are garbage and give you the wrong idea on training. * limited kit customization * Can't pick your own world without breaking the damn game! * No group chat function.(The other 2000+ Zwifters clearly want to know about what you had for breakfast). * Cant create your own race/group workout without licking Zwifts ass! * Crappy leveling-up system with terrible rewards. * No quests except for the Tron bike quest. * no skin tone slider(you are either pasty pale white or crispy burnt chicken black) * 55kg guys fucking riding away from 85kg tanks on the flat... * No In-Game leaderboard for races. * Sandbaggers being allowed to join lower-level races. ( Just have ranked races and un-ranked races) * No A+ Races. (The Range of fitness in A races is Huge!) * No in-game voice chat. * Cant see more than 30mins into the future in-game without using ZwiftPower.("oh you want to see an event for tomorrow? Tough.) With the amount of funding that Zwift receives this game should be running like clockwork 24/7! But of course they are too cheap to do anything than the bare minimum.


TCoop

I'm with you on this one. I use Zwift as a fun riding thing. I want it to be good at that. I'll get my analysis and workout planning from somewhere else.


KronicMag

>Runs like shit on PC's(Uses the same amount of CPU utilization to run AAA games) As a new Zwift user this caught my attention right away.


SnausageOfDoom

Maybe 15 of those are lack of features, not bugs, and only one of the 15 is a feature I give a crap about. "Getting the game right" is obviously different, between you and I.


kyotonow

I’ll drop my subscription entirely and just go all in on TrainerRoad. I’ve been using both for about 3 years - TR when I’m racing and need structure, and Zwift when I’m not following a plan - but I can easily do just TR.


fanatic_cyclist

Easy “No” for me😀


tommyalanson

Ha, nope.


LawTortoise

Is this a fucking pisstake?


Martinbanshee

No chance, I’m closer to cancelling Zwift than wanting to pay any more to them for that buggy software.


alexdresko

Zwift costs too much already. I'm lucky my wife hasn't noticed how much I've spent on zwift.


MaxRothFitness

Copying trainer road much?!


gplama

Why copy when you can acquire?


MaxRothFitness

Not sure TR is for sale. 👀 Love the vids btw


gplama

Everything is for sale. 😉


MaxRothFitness

Do you think they’d disband it or “make it better”


gplama

Zwift need a massive pivot when it comes to exactly what TR do/have. They'll either acquire them, someone similar, or do it themselves. The latter two not being an ideal scenario for TR. Eric Min was posting about being in Reno this week too.... Interesting timing given this 'survey' outlines everything TR is doing.


gplama

More on this... wholly shit people are fired up on this one. It's great to see so much passion for stationary spin bike exercise! 😆 I'm sure TR have protected their IP, so are Zwift going to straight up copy them? I doubt it. Should Nate be worried? Only if he's dreading an early retirement option and having more money than he could shit.


dooglehead

TrainerRoad already copied adaptive training and automatic FTP detection from Xert, so I don't think they have any IP to protect.


gplama

Zwift CEO has posted a number of Xert linked rides on Strava... so there's something happening here for sure.


modernDayKing

Fascinating


shootyboots1

Pay more to use enhancedzwift workouts? Thanks, I am good.


allgonetoshit

Automatic FTP is already in the system and I actually like that. I like the system to track my fitness without having to do FTP tests all the time. Unless they magically improve their software, I'm not going to start paying more for that kind of feature set.


cubenz

New to Zwift. How does the auto FTP work?


allgonetoshit

Periodically, based on the effort on your rides, it will determine your FTP and give you an update. So, provided that your rides are long and often enough to see a pattern, it will determine what your FTP might be.


dradam168

I don't think it really needs to see a 'pattern', you just need to achieve a 20 minute effort that is greater than 105% of your FTP.


Doyale_royale

Considering Zwift can barely maintain their mature game, I can’t imagine they’d take on anything else.


duncansoon

Zwift can fuck off if this happens


Gummie-21

They better get their shit together before even thinking about this. Are we a joke as a paying customer.


wolfpack86

I agree. Even the standard rate for how buggy and non-user friendly the app is in current state feels like I’m funding a kickstarter


kyletwonine

I personally think zwift is too expensive already


solarbeat

I want the opposite. A super cheap plan where I can ride the maps/control my trainer by myself (I have no interest in the social aspect) and get data pushed to Strava/Apple Health. I know there's a way to cobble together Zwift Offline as a hack, but that's all I need. $5/month?


Antti5

I don't get it why so many here seem to be losing their shit over this. I look at the Premium features and I don't see anything that interests me. So I don't get it. I lose nothing. Or am I missing something here?


SplinterCell03

I think what people would prefer is for Zwift to fix their existing features, before they spend time and effort creating new features. So much stuff is broken (and people are paying $$$ for it), and Zwift claims they just don't have time to fix it. But apparently they do have time to create additional features.


Mrjlawrence

And time for their new Zwift Bike.


SplinterCell03

I'm sure that will be rock-solid reliable when it's released! If it doesn't work out, they can always give it a 100W boost.


cubenz

If they go like Strava, and new features will be in the Premium version only.


boxoctosis

Lol no thanks


Mojo5375

Nope, I’m out


goodforcycling

like others have said, if the workouts are the quality of trainerroad, i would be willing pay more


da_17co

Seems like many of you are using trainerroad for these training features. Do any of you also use Xert? How does it compare to trainerroad's adaptive training?


SoggyAlbatross2

Eh, that's a no from me. I think it's pretty clear they'd have to demonstrate some value there (with respect to TR) before people would jump on that wagon.


ipilotete

Zwift AI. It’d be state of the art. Just like B. Brevet and all his original sayings. Lol.


PC__LOAD__LETTER

That’s going to be a no from me dog. Regular Zwift is barely worth the price tag as it is. Such an awful piece of software, I’m sorry, but I’m really looking forward to a better platform picking up steam and taking them over.


mashani9

Automatic FTP detection is something it already does - IE I have many times in the past had an FTP update detected when I go all out racing and forget about the pain long enough while trying to hang onto a group. So how would that be different? Or are they going to take this ability away from "basic".


PuzzleheadedGuide184

If it was any good I’d pay it I think. Trainer road is great but it’s dull as dishwater.


plantmic

I thought it was 12 quid, not 12.99. maybe not. To be honest, I think that's borderline too expensive as it is. For that price point the service really should be a bit better.


dermatrose

The only part of this I would want to add for myself is the part about taking your workouts outdoors on your headunit. Otherwise, there's nothing in the premium package I'd really want as a non-competitive recreational cyclist. For me, Zwift is something fun to look at while I'm cycling indoors.


Outrageous_Talk_2877

I use the trainer road workouts on zwift. An excellent combination. It's annoying that zwift is now gonna charge for the option to do this!! But this is this modern world, squeezing every last penny out of people.


Low-Emu9984

A traineroad acquisition would be wonderful for all of us


Smooth-Presentation5

I think we all know we would low key pay for it


INGWR

Nope


rsam487

Yeah this stinks of a merger. Personally, I'd be a huge fan of lumping it all into one platform. Working out on the headunit outside has been a game changer since using TR. Adaptive training seems okay, I would imagine that gets better as it goes. The calendar feature for workouts is a no brainer


jwilso6

Jesus. This is getting ridiculous.


damn_it_beavis

Fuck you, Zwift. I'm \*just barely\* willing to pay for your virtual circle jerk as it is. I could just as easily get a workout on the fatbike in, you know, reality.


Blue_Carolina88

I mean, it was only a matter of time. So long as the current features stick at the current price I’ll keep my subscription.


davidjschloss

If they fix all the broken stuff I’d pay more for extra stuff.


MrRabbit

No big deal. Not removing anything from the current membership.


Chrisodle007

This is kinda bullshit


StriderKeni

I mean, if they add something similar to Trainer Road, I'm willing to pay the premium. All those "premium" features are what I've been waiting to see on Zwift for years


1365

I'd rather ride in a dark room without stimulus than pay £20 for a shitty subscription. Putting existing feature behind an extra paywall. Maffia


turtleonarock

Fuck that. I’ll switch platforms.


gplama

What if TR and Zwift merge to offer a single platform that has the best of both 'worlds'?


hunterPronovo

Looking at the comments, I must be in the minority. Zwift is worth double what they charge currently simply for the level of daily, consistent competition they offer. I've never done a Zwift workout, never used TR. I am a racer, and would gladly pay more for features built to make racing on the platform better, not training plans.


p0u1

So is the membership were paying for going to become free?


TheDentateGyrus

I've been waiting for this or them to start allowing you to buy drops to upgrade gear without having to ride your bike. Basically, I've been waiting for them to ruin Zwift.


melcrose

I dropped them years ago during the last price jump.


Divtos

Fuck Eric Min. That is all.


jcwillia1

How much are we talking? An extra five dollars a month – yes. An extra $10 a month – no thank you.


SnausageOfDoom

It's a big IF, but if they give all the functionality of TR and TR costs $20/month, would it be unreasonable to charge an extra $10/month for it? Should sound like a bargain for those who subscribe to both, I would think.


jcwillia1

Yah I’m going to tap out at $25 a month. I already think $15 a month is dumb. Forget that it’s a bike training program for a moment. How many video games are able to get $15 a month? That’s bananas.


SnausageOfDoom

Compare it to Peloton which is $39 a month.


EeenyMeeny

Peloton gives you a family subscription, so if two of you in the house ride, it suddenly would become comparable.


bertie1989

Peloton gives me a ton more features than Zwift. Yoga, strength, outdoor runs, walks, meditation, Cardio, and my family subscription.


Careless_Owl_7716

Either they'll try and build it themselves... in which case I doubt it'd be worth it. Else it sounds like a whitelabelled TrainerRoad? Which would be interesting as it's then an alternative to paying for SYSTM and Zwift.


djs383

They’re due for some M&A magic. It’s likely that they probably want to attract more investors/liquidity and the growth in ebitda from an acquisition is the ticket. If that’s not the case and this is just a tiered plan for more flow to the bottom line, it’s not feature rich enough to get that crossover and development of new tech is capital heavy so this survey makes complete sense.


B117_Strain

Those additional features seem compelling, although I'd evaluate them first for a couple of months before committing.


nforrest

I also took a survey today but this sure wasn't one of the questions. It was more focused on what else I do (run, swim, hike, etc.) and what other apps I use (Strava, TR, Garmin, etc.)


nx91notch

I like the idea of taking your "workouts outside" but I use a Karoo 2 unit. They seem to be only targeting Garmin and Wahoo. That's the only thing about premium that interests me and I couldn't even use it without changing GPS units. But....might be a possible way to side load it on the Karoo.


Lopsidedhip

As someone who doesn't really train just rides on zwift. I'd like for them to take all that training stuff make it premium (at current price or whatever) and make a lower option for just wanting to ride and Ftp test. 12 bucks ain't bad for everything but why am I different then someone just running? I just wanna cruise around hit some PRs then go about my next adventure in life. Either way I don't think splitting seems worth it to a lot of people.


b_whiqq

I wouldn’t use any of those features anyway.