By - g_ricko89
Oddly, decommissioned tanks make great artificial reefs
It’s because tanks don’t move from ocean currents. Tires do..
Even if tires didn't move with currents they'd still leach toxic chemicals, no?
BBC News - France removes toxic tyres from failed reef project
Sometimes for sure
I would have sworn only Florida was this stupid…
60% of the time, it works everytime.
Fish are actually pretty tough, and the ocean is pretty fast at washing away chemicals if there’s any kind of current present. You’re not going to create the Great Barrier Reef or anything, but sinking stripped down cars, ships, tanks, etc has been an extremely successful fish habitat restoration process.
Yeah but we drain them of their toxic chemicals, ideally
I think this is the problematic mentality of "naw it's fine" at a global scale because we think whatever we are putting our crap in is infinite
And then one day everything comes together. It's happened with the ozone, with plastics in the ocean, with microplastics,I could go on...
The thing is, companies pollute more in a couple years than most people do in their lives
In the grand scheme the general public will barely impact the environment
Yep, meanwhile they try to pin it on us but we aren't the ones doing it
we're just the ones buying the products
This is the critical link in the chain that we influence. I cannot say "control" because we have precious few options when purchasing necessary items. But we *are* part of the problem when we purchase items with excessive plastic packaging or from a company that is an otherwise heavy polluter.
Consumers can only be to blame when they have less harmful products they could purchase. Lack of corporate competition eliminates consumer culpability.
They've had a hand in pretty much dictating what products we buy. EG: I never wanted to deal with a car but I need to own one because of how we built our cities. Now I have to pay thousands a year to oil companies.
Well yes, but…
Do you assign pollution associated with manufacturing a car to the manufacturer or to the individual that requested they make them a car?
The manufacturer. You can only pretend in ideal theoretical circumstances that if that one person didn't order a car, thr car wouldn't be made. Unless there's literally 0 demand (which is realistically impossible in this decade), there will be cars made.
The manufacturer decides how much they care about limiting waste and pollution, not the person who is asking for a car.
Otherwise, guess you're not allowed to drink water ethically because 90% of drinking water is sourced unethically in one way or another. Same with 90% of food.
You should definitely watch the good place on Netflix. Goes in to 4 seasons entirely based off this topic
Seen it. Great show!
I don't understand why whoever did this wouldn't test whether it works on a small scale first.
It would BUT they cheaped out on the hardware keeping the tires connected in large chunks. It rusted away and the tires became loose allowing them to move around in strong currents making it a dangerous and useless reef.
Tires don’t even stay buried in landfills.
Tanks like military tanks?
Yes. Tanks, ships, etc (big things made out of thick steel) make excellent artificial reefs
Of course they do. Fish love tanks. You can't find them in anyone's home without there being a tank present. Seems kinda obvious.
Remembered seen some documentary about iron is actually palnkton fertilizer.
Huge Australian bushfires deposited a heap of iron in the Southern Ocean which lead to record phytoplankton bloom.
For reference iron is required by plants to be able to perform photosynthesis.
Russia is really just environmentalists that are destroying their own tanks in Ukraine to save the fish.
hey you! what are you doing there? dumping tires in the ocean?!
uhhhh no we're uhhh... we're... creating an artificial coral reef! yeah that!
More like creating a dumping ground for whale cockrings
The largest whale, the blue whale's dong tops out at about a foot in diameter. Your alibi is full of blowholes.
Tire for a 12" wheel is roughly a foot.
What I'm saying is, it's possible.
Anything is a cock ring - if you’re brave enough.
You saw the recent post about the guy that had to be cut out of a metal park bench?
Wtf, he even got each of his big toes stuck in there.
I went back to check. You're totally fucking right. That's even funnier. Thanks for pointing it out.
Damn I've been doing this whole sex thing all wrong!
I'd like to be a cock ring.
Is that it?
Some blue whales are grow-ers, not show-ers.
I puruse these waters. I Do recommend
Whatcha doin' in my waters, boy?
its attached to your rod mother licker!
Fuzzy little man peach
The US Navy uses this area and several other failed reefs in Florida as a salvage diver training ground and retrieving the tires from the bottom is part of the training. It's going to take us something like 100+ years before they're all finally gone but we could have realistically done it in less than 10 if we were really trying.
[Here's some more info.](https://irt.defense.gov/Portals/57/Documents/news/Currents_Magazine.pdf).
They had to retire that coral reef idea
Seems like they’re just treading water now
they're also under a lot of pressure.
Let's hope the recovery plan doesn't have any holes in it.
When they are all gone it will be a goodyear.
You wheely think so?
I wish I had a clever pun to add. I really feel like a fifth wheel.
I'm really tired of those puns
You really know how to deflate a conversation.
Better get rolling!
> but we could have realistically done it in less than 10 if we were really trying
oh the things humanity could solve if only "we" would try
Ain't nobody got time for that. I got reddit posts to scroll through that I've already seen earlier in the day.
Humanity can solve every problem on earth if everyone just agreed to drop their bullshit to work on it. And by bullshit I mean the entire systems designed to lock everyone into a 60+ year work cycle just so they can...not work for the last 20-30 years.
Welp. That fucking sucks.
Just dredge it
As a 15 yr old I worked at a beachfront hotel by(Broward County)in the mid 60’s helping do this..There was zero concern for the environment. The touted goal was to reduce the erosion that was washing away the beaches. The theory was that tieing the tires up and placing them just offshore would help retain sand. I spent more than a few hours in the mid 60’s in the surf with this.
I just watched the KOTH episode where Mr. Strickland says exactly that about dumping waste in the river
that's Florida Smart .
The tire reef concept was done in about a dozen other sites around the world, including the northeastern US. The whole reason the project failed was simply because the cabling used to hold the tires together didn't hold, and the tires became 2 million free floating objects under the ocean... reefs don't survive on objects getting tossed around, and the reason it was deemed an ecological disaster was because the free floating debris was damaging the natural reef
So has this concept been done successfully elsewhere, using cabling which keeps them firmly grounded on the ocean floor?
eels love a tire.
What about the material breaking down and affecting the chemistry of the water? I would expect that to be a big problem.
Rubber vulcanized tires dont really breakdown in water, they breakdown in UV sunlight
Soflo says ofcourse I did.
Probably got the idea from 5 minute crafts
Their idea of life hack is bake food in the shape of a laptop cause I guess they live in some totalitarian state where bringing food anywhere is illegal
Or they just love to make a mess of libraries. Or to combat those totalitarian sporting venues that strip search you so they can sell you water for $8/half-litre bottle. Also zoos and any other places that do that. I’ve seen way worse ideas is all I’m saying
Wait food is legal in your country?
To be fair, 5 minute crafts does a lot of crafts with cement. Florida actually has had great success creating artificial reefs using essentially large concrete colanders.
Saw a 5 min crafts "recycling" video of a girl making ropes out of sheets of brand new aluminum foil and then making a little aluminum house thing in the woods and it looked fucking horrible, uncomfortable, and hot. It was so ridiculous.
Imagine doing that with greasy and torn aluminum though
I'm convinced 5 minute crafts is an AI learning algorithm.
I'm sure that's a parody channel.
Or did they dump the tires and *then* call it an artificial reef?
Sounds more likely doesn’t it
Oops! I mean, look at how I've helped nature!
It was the 1970s, I really doubt the people on charge knew better because they were probably over their fucking nostrils in cocaine
I mean it is florida
The 70s were a weird and sexy time where you were supposed to dig a hole and fill it with gravel and dump your used motor oil in it.
The 50s were even weirder. The good old times where barrels with nuclear waste were jsut dropped off into the ocean and if they bobbed back up they were shot with machine guns or occcasionally an air strike was called on them.
Military bases just had fucking dump pits where they dumped all the leftover toxic chemicals from making rockets and shit. Wild times.
Welcome to the 40s where poison gas and chemical warfare weapons were just dumped into the sea..
And very likely after ww1 too..
I like that you're implying anyone in Florida has brain cells, even since the 1970's.
It's probably from all that used motor oil in the ground water
It was for real supposed to be a reef, cause tires last forever and were thought to be good for reefs, but it turns out that if they aren't anchored, they move with the currents and turn over, meaning no life can get a good foundation on them and the tires spread out and cover areas that might be decent foundation for life.
If they had been attached to concrete, then maybe they could have become a good foundation, but it would have cost a huge amount of concrete.
Now divers need to retrieve these tires one by one, cause it's difficult and expensive to build equipment to do it and the divers grabbing them are training anyway, so this is a way to minimize cost, but it also means the efficiency is atrocious. Like 10-20 tires a day per diver.
> Like 10-20 tires a day per diver.
That is pretty abysmal. Surely you could have a diver/divers paired with a surface vessel and some lift bags. Done properly, the biggest limits would probably be how many bags a diver could take down, and how quickly the people on the surface can haul them out the water.
I think it was more about how much each hour costs in training and what is within safety regulations for the divers.
Taking a lift bag requires extra stuff, so more cumbersome and if they year open, you just pollute more.
I seem to recall as well that the program in charge of this tried multiple methods and found out that divers were the best as is.
They were anchored, but the ties that were holding them together weren't strong enough and decayed, leading to them just becoming mobile and breaking up more stuff, yeah
Honestly this doesn't fit this sub, it's not a stupid idea to help make artificial reefs.. their attempt just failed. Fits more in r/therewasanattempt
Yeah who could’ve thought this sounded plausible without tons of evidence
“Oh let’s just dump all this rubber/plastic/polymer shit in the ocean; it will be a cool place for fish and shit in no time”
NYC also did this in 2008 but with 1,000 [retired subway cars.](https://www.fastcompany.com/90716245/sinking-1000-nyc-subway-cars-in-the-atlantic-to-create-a-reef-didnt-go-as-planned) It wasn't the worst *idea,* however I guess they forgot to check how the material would last in the ocean because it starting disintegrating like immediately.
Why don't they just try it with 1 first
Because that's using your noggin and governments aren't super great at that
I’m still fishing them up in animal crossing to this day
I didn't know the trash pond was a thing and kept fishing at it for like 20minutes before I figured it out.
Tbf I was also stoned
How exactly was this suppose to help anyway???
The idea was that they would take the place of rocks. Serving as hiding spots for fish and anchors for coral. This of course ignores the fact that tires are not rocks.
If they stacked them it would have created an awesome place for fish to hide. Well, if they weren't toxic or whatever reason it was an eco disaster wasn't present
The chemical used to make rubber in tires more abrasion resistant is also highly toxic to some fish species, could be a minor issue when you dump them in the ocean
I can’t hear you over the sound of us sinking old military ships!
I always thought those mothball ships were fine and encouraged wildlife. From my limited knowledge get stripped to the metal before they're sunk for the scrap metal/electronics. Unless they're sunk in an area already dense with wildlife i dont see the issue.
Yea. Some things really affect animals. Like febreeze with birds... I'm sorry Mr Peeps... 😭
Eh. Just blame it on Zach.
I think in like the 8 years I've had this name on reddit and Xbox your the first person to get it.
Really? I'm pretty sure I've seen your name before but just didn't have the gumption or the right context for a relevant joke. But 8 years? Reddit failed you man.
Most Americans (which is who I usually play with) don't read the eh as A... Playing online with randoms it's like "hey eckh there's some ammo over here" lol
28 days eh c slater
Hey man just want to comment that I had no idea about febreeze and birds till now so thanks for saying something. Looked it up; apparently it’s really bad. Cheers.
They did bundle them but the ties corroded and a storm took care of the rest
They did stack them. They were bound together but the ties ended up breaking in the next storm and pretty much scattered them all over the place.
I also read that they shifted with the waves. Making them unsuitable for corals and turning them into little wrecking balls
Things that walk across the floor would get in and couldn't get out.
There was a pic posted here a while back of a tire (not part of this disaster i don’t think) that was full of dead hermit crabs or something because of exactly that problem.
Also you could easily dump a *few* tires and see if a reef starts to form. You know if you were actually interested in doing something positive and not just dumping old tires.
Tbf, I can see the logic. I have done some underwater cleanup dives/litter picking, and you'd be amazed what makes a perfectly serviceable home for sea life. We actually had a rule of *not* removing some rubbish, because it was the foundation for so much corals and sponges.
tbf, plenty of artificial reefs are made from things that aren't rocks.
They could have done, y'know, a patch test.
Before throwing acres of tires in there.
You have it backwards. You assume they cared about successfully creating a marine habitat when in fact what they cared about was getting rid of 2 million tires as cheaply as possible.
They also tend to be not made of poison.
Yeah - the shipwrecks they use for making artificial reefs have to be very carefully cleaned and stripped of anything toxic before they are sunk. You can’t just dump something in the sea and call it a reef… that’s not how it works.
[Bikini Atoll has entered the chat)](http://www.bluewaterdivetravel.com/bikini-atoll-diving)
>You can’t just dump something in the sea and call it a reef…
That’s kinda exactly how it works? Phone poles, concrete rubble, reclaimed culverts, all the way up to boats, rail cars (if you use the right kinda not the NYC train dump style),
It works alot better when the object in question is BIG and I mean **BIG** enough that a passing storm doesn’t move it around. Or are shaped so they DONT ROLL, they are still finding tires from this dump turning up in places like Malaysia from what I read.
There’s an easy way to tell If it’s gonna be a good fish habitat.
Find a place that already had that kinda object under water (humans are really bad about loosing things on boats, many times with the boat too) and see if anything can or will grow on it, then figure out if you area has that kinda wildlife or similar and then do a short test and maybe just maybe get an marine biologist involved?
Fucking dumb ass Florida, if the water in the keys wasn’t so fucking beautiful I’d say just call that place the dangling sweaty, mouse infested phallus of America, but the fishing and driving in the keys? Makes it worth having to drive through Florida to get there,
I mean they hid that gem on the other side of the mosquito breeding ground that is the Everglades (I don’t hate the glades, they are beautiful but the SPIDERS!)
I suspect the issue was that the tires weren't dense enough and moved with the waves, scraping the ground and anything growing on the tires off. So yeah rocks would have been a much better choice.
NJ has has successfully created artificial reefs with decommissioned boats, subway cars, and cinder blocks but tires were a real smooth brain idea.
> a real smooth brain idea.
Aka a bald tire idea.
Theres a tire reef off Yarmouth, MA, and it's a haven for fish...in an otherwise vast barren sand flat.
What do you think the difference is? Why did it work in MA?
In FL, it was the storms and poor ties that made it counterproductive:
> Ultimately, little marine life has been successful in latching onto the man-made reef and the majority never even had the opportunity to do so. When deposited, while a few tires were individual loose entities, the majority were bound together with nylon or steel clips (or bands). As there were no exceptional efforts made to ensure the non-corrosivity of the steel restraints, they summarily failed—resulting in the loosing of over two million individual, lightweight tires. This newfound mobility destroyed any marine life that had thus far grown on the tires, and effectively prevented the growth of any new organisms. Furthermore, **the tires were now easily subject to the tropical winds and storms that frequent the east coast of Florida, and continue to collide (at times with tremendous force) with natural coral reefs only 70 feet (21 m) away: compounding their futility with environmentally damaging side-effects.**
> and continue to collide (at times with tremendous force) with natural coral reefs
Imagine destroying that which you swore to become
"Each unit consists of 3 to 5 tires filled with concrete. Units are strapped together in bundles. There are currently 2500 reef units in the area. This design of this reef provides desirable habitat for finfish and lobsters in an otherwise featureless area."
Temperature of water would be one thing
They were supposed to tie the tires together when the tires were supposed to stay in one place so that corals can start growing on them.
Instead the tires came loose and was washed all over the place, destroying the seafloor in the process.
Don't they know you're supposed to burn them like every other country.
Don't you know those can burn for 32 seasons, while in a pile
Is 32 seasons the same as 8 years or are you making up some other time measurement?
Seasons of The Simpsons.
So what I've learned is:
Tanks? Good artificial coral reef.
Tires? Bad artificial coral reef.
They probably got tired of retrieving them…
If there's a wheel there's a way.
Wheel in the ocean keeps churning
Very tyresome work
At some point you just feel like you are spinning your wheels.
These puns have me exhausted
It would feel like going around in circles. I would be flat out staying pumped up to do that job.
And now they’re making mulch out of tires and selling it to the unsuspecting at Home Depot. Crazy what people do to the environment.
My mom did this like, idk, 15 years ago. It sucks. Don’t ever use chewed up tires for mulch. I can’t believe they’re still selling this shit
When I was in middle school my parents bought me a box of pencils made out of recycled tires. They were the worst thing I've ever tried to write with. They gummed up pencil sharpeners, and the tips bent and squeaked as I was writing.
The teachers actually forbid me from using them because they kept breaking pencil sharpeners, and the squeaking was driving everyone crazy.
Most artificial turf fields are covered in a finer version of the same stuff.
Took a handful of goalies getting cancer to prove that was a dumb idea.
Can you provide papers for this? I'm genuinely asking because I've been in the Army for a few years now and a lot of our PT fields are filled with recycled tire rubber.
They covered my schools playgrounds with ground up tires.
Man I bet that wasn’t a Goodyear.
No... The worst.
Fun fact: This incident is [referenced in GTA V](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZbObDUGQnk).
Why was it an environmental disaster?
It was very sad when I read about it last time. Something about it not being chained up or secured properly. Not only does the tires themselves do nothing to help, them bouncing around in the ocean floor destroyed other natural reef.
Thank you for explaining. I was curious too because I originally thought artificial coral was started from what we put and then ocean life does its thing to turn it into a coral biome. Though I probably wouldn't have tried tires, but idk how much they knew about it then.
Tires leak toxic chemicals as the degrade. It's fucking idiotic.
Some of them are specifically super toxic to fish so the ocean is just about the worst place they could have picked
Except that's not the reason AT ALL this turned out badly. The steel cables used to tie the tires together degraded and failed, resulting in 2 million lightweight tires easily moving around in rough weather, destroying both life that had formed on them, and nearby marine life like nearby natural coral reefs.
Has nothing to do with toxicity in the slightest.
The tires physically destroyed reefs, but they are also extremely toxic to most marine life too.
I don't doubt it, but toxicity is decidedly not the reason they are removing the tires. [Osborne Reef](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_Reef)
In Washington one of the chemicals in the tires end up in the runoff kill a species of the salmon.
They are the enemy for 1 species of salmon, that we know of. Further research happening now. Responsible tire companies are replacing the chemical as we speak
This has happened in numerous places. It's crazy. What sucks is when you try and pull anchor after your dive, get up to the boat and go to retrieve it, but it's now snagged on a random giant, sand/growth filled tire. Get it loose, then snags another, and another... And then snags solid.
When I about 16 and bullet proof, I grabbed a tank with less than 500psi remaining to head back down to 85ft, skip breathing, to try and move the anchor clear so we didn't have to cut the line. Ran across the ocean floor carrying the anchor as far as I could to clear the rubble until I ran out of air. That's one feeling I don't recommend... Doing cardio at 80ft depth, drawing on the regulator but it's just dead, hard stop, mask sucks to your face. That was a stressful accent.
Anyways... Yeah, the geniuses that tried trying tires together with thin wires that rust and break.
How did you avoid decompression sickness ascending from 85 feet with no air?
It's not that quick of a thing. The benz is the result of buildup of nitrogen in your blood. Many people don't realize that the air you breath is actually around 4:1 nitrogen to oxygen (with various inert gasses mixed in). You would have to have been at depth for an extended period of time and depth, as outlined in the drive tables, taking also into account the timing between consecutive dives.
Long and the short: I was nearing max on my tables, but with such little air to start my descent, by the time I was in the bottom I only had enough air for a very short time. So, as a result I didn't significantly increase my nitrogen saturation.
The crazy thing is even after running out of air, I continued carrying the anker for another couple steps, guess I was determined to compete the mission... then started my ascent. I fought to keep my mind calm and controlled my ascent to match some bubbles I expelled as my lungs expanded moving upwards.
Last 12 ft I honestly lost composure and burst to the surface. I actually suffered minor damage to my left eardrum, and had mask filled with blood from the impulse to breath...I had kept my regulator in my mouth to avoid the urge to inhale water... So inhaling through my nose created a vacuum in the mask, which caused blood vessels to burst in my nose.
Other than that, didn't exceed my bottom time and so other than a sore and slightly bleeding ear and nose, came out fine. Went back to diving the next day. Man, to be young again 😂
Edit: you can however have serious consequences if you hold your breath while ascending from depth to the surface as the air in your lungs expands. That's also one of the dangers with skip breathing or holding breath for period of time, sometimes used to extend air supply. Holding the air can increase your buoyancy, and with a full lung it doesn't take much of a decrease in depth to cause injury.
You can dive this deep without needing a decompression stop as long as you are not down long enough to have a significant amount of gas dissolve into your blood. Which is based on depth and time. They are called no stop dives. Iirc 130 ft is the limit with significant safety margins left.
Sounds like OP wasn’t making their first dive of the day though.
That shouldnt matter as long as his previous dives were done safely.
It was not his first whale rodeo
Hey governor what do we do with 2 million tons of rubber?
… ok that was tricky but I got it. Give ‘em to fish so fish can play with em
Can he do that?
WE can do that
Turns out, rubber and oil smell just as bad underwater
Corporate had a great idea on how to dump tires for free.
Fuck man, they're not used car batteries!
What in god's name was the hypothesis
Americans: we can’t trust our people, we need the government to make all the decisions!!
The government decisions:
You cant blame me! my intention was green!
Man they must've gotten tired doing that
Where else but Florida
Good intentions, bad execution
So then they had to coral the problem
Ahh. Another typical case of "You were so preoccupied with whether you could, you didn't stop to think whether you should."
Unfortunately, life **uh..** did not find a way here.