Dana Carvey never got the career he deserved. He had a massive heart operation and they worked on the wrong valve ! he had to wait a year to recover so they could do it right, all the time waiting when he could die suddenly at any moment.
One of the weirdest side effects of the plinkett reviews is that between the goofy Rich Evans performance and the behind the scenes footage of the prequels I’ve come to genuinely like George Lucas as just a kooky character.
Lucas has done a bunch of really cool shit in the film industry but most of it was more on the production side of things. He founded ILM and was instrumental in the creation of Pixar. He resurrected Akira Kurosawa's career when he couldn't get films made and produced other stuff like Labyrinth and Mishima: a Life in Four Chapter.
Spielberg, Lucas and Coppola dominated Hollywood in the 80s, with far more interesting projects coming out of that period compared to what we have now.
Because he’s also a huge asshole behind the scenes/in his personal life. He was extremely demeaning to his first wife Marcia Lucas, who helped saved A New Hope with her editing after his initial cut was awful and boring. Her later thanks for it was George telling her that she’s just a stupid girl and he’s the film genius who went to USC.
> with her editing after his initial cut was awful and boring.
Discredited view I think
However not sure where you get "er later thanks for it was George telling her that she’s just a stupid girl and he’s the film genius who went to USC." from, he does have a vindictive streak in him though so who knows
They clapped, they clapped when they saw it at my theater.
God, I hate that movie. Who is Christopher Lee’s character even supposed to be? We barely know anything about him, but we’re supposed to care about this stupid showdown at the end. The clones vs. bugs stuff has no content to it. The nameless Jedi Council, Coruscant and clone world, the bland, plasticky visuals. It’s all so boring and undeveloped, like someone laid down the first layer of a painting and just stopped.
Christopher Lee is the only good thing in that movie. I think when he appears he 100% improved it.
It's clearly before that the movie is crap. Thank God for Lee.
And then you watch The Clone Wars series and there's a lightsaber fight nearly every episode between characters who you know aren't going to kill each other because they show up in the movies later.
> God, I hate that movie. Who is Christopher Lee’s character even supposed to be? We barely know anything about him,
Separatist leader, pretends to be an idealist and then drops mask and turns out to be a condescending asshole, tries to kill/execute the good guys etc. - also talks about / is involved in shadowy conspiracies or something.
>but we’re supposed to care about this stupid showdown at the end.
Even if all that stuff hadn't been there, he still would've been a charismatic antagonist which is more than enough to get most viewers invested.
>The clones vs. bugs stuff has no content to it.
Well it was mostly in the background.
>The nameless Jedi Council,
Its 2-3 main members are really the only ones that matter and they all have names lol; why did you want the background extras to all get names?
>Coruscant and clone world, the bland, plasticky visuals.
No idea what you mean
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Lots of "the sequels are worse!!" comebacks online nowadays. All made by people who feel nostalgia for the dogshit prequels. Fuck that all 6 movies are shit.
The sequels are much more competent on a technical level but the prequels are much more interesting from a "how did this get made?" perspective and are more entertaining, even if only in an ironic way.
tbh I'd rather watch the prequels, even though I agree the sequels are much better made. the prequels just have some schlocky, corny quality to them that makes them a little charming, but the sequels are trying so hard to be self-aware that it just makes me cringe the whole time.
Yeah but they're shit in different ways cause they were made by different people in different ways and different approaches.
George had a singular vision but was bad at implementing it, Disney was all over the place. Some people prefer the bad prequels to the bad sequels, doesn't take science to figure that one out.
Now, the stuff in the post is more nostalgia than anyone saying the movies were *good* per se, the person just said they wanna go back to when they were a kid presumably.
Edit: Lmfao if you disagree at least add something don't just downvote...this sub never ceases to fascinate
>George had a singular vision but was bad at implementing it
No, his vision was implemented perfectly. He had the best implementation money could buy, and he oversaw every step. If the result was bad, it's because the underlying vision was bad.
No, you're talking about *production*, not implementation. Money =/= quality, how many times do we need to repeat this.
You can't really look at that script for instance (which he insisted on writing) and call that perfect implementation. He had a vision as a creator, but failed as a writer was my point. And it was also a rush job in many ways, so far from perfect. RLM literally covered this when looking at the behind the scenes footage in their reviews.
And I'm not really having the same old argument we've been having for 20 years over this, that wasn't even the point of my comment anyways.
I don’t agree about perfect execution, but I do think you can really tell which of the films he worked on and there’s a genuine sense of auteurship running through episodes 1 to 6.
There is a evel of hypocrisy about Lucas "doing his vision" and people doing commercial BS and looking good.
I dunno. Probably commercial movies are not so bad. But still are less artistic than somebody doing it with some artistic merit.
But the sequels are definitive worse.
> There is a evel of hypocrisy about Lucas "doing his vision" and people doing commercial BS and looking good. I dunno.
So do you know or not? Like you just said your take but never actually elaborated. How is it hypocritical?
And who's doing commercial BS and looking good? I don't really understand what you're trying to say here.
> All made by people who feel nostalgia for the dogshit prequels.
Chucking it all up to "nostalgia" is just a circlejerky notion that you took from other commenters
Look a lot of people were kids back then. Those films were pretty good if you were a kid. Kids are idiots. I suppose some kids would have just thought it was cool to see star wars on the big screen or be getting any new movies after star wars just being those 3 movies for the whole life. But like kids are idiots so who cares.
Also there is a thing where people remember the past being much better than it actually was. Often it's because they were a kid and didn't have to worry about shit so the look back fondly to a time before having to pay bills or worrying about climate change. Some people have a vision of the past that is some weird fantasy that never existed. Like those weridos who think the 60s were amazing despite being born in the 80s.
I recently made a video talking about Plinkett’s prequel reviews and saying they’re still great works of criticism and every comment I got was from schizophrenic teenagers trying to defend the prequels.
One kid kept repeatedly begging people to watch his 4+ hour “rebuttal”. It’s nuts.
Yeah my overall sentiment in the piece is that the prequels are objectively bad movies but people of a certain generation - myself included, born in ‘94 - are going to enjoy them anyway out of nostalgia.
I thought this wouldn’t be controversial but I was wrong lol. There are just legions of people willing to defend them to death as good films.
Speak for yourself. I remember being bored to tears by Attack of the Clones as a 7 year old... except for the brief action scenes. But considering Lord of the Rings was coming out at the same time, it's pretty shocking the difference in quality.
> I recently made a video talking about Plinkett’s prequel reviews and saying they’re still great works of criticism and every comment I got was from schizophrenic teenagers trying to defend the prequels.
Those schizo teenagers may very well have been full of tshi themselves, but the Plinquel reviews are largely an incohesive hackjob with some half-truths mixed in here and there.
> One kid kept repeatedly begging people to watch his 4+ hour “rebuttal”. It’s nuts.
And did you watch it and determine how it was wrong?
Yes, there will be another generation that grew up on the sequels and swears up and down that they’re the best SW movies because of their childhood nostalgia goggles.
“No, I’ve never seen *The Empire Strikes Back* but it just sounds stupid. The Empire is just like a lame old version of the truly terrifying First Order. And the sequels give you most of the old characters anyway, plus all of the new iconic characters like Captain Phasma and Babu Frik.”
>Yes, there will be another generation that grew up on the sequels and swears up and down that they’re the best SW movies because of their childhood nostalgia goggles.
I mean there are already non-children who like or praise them right now.
> Maybe the prequels aren’t good. But in 20 years time, will anybody be nostalgic for the sequel trilogy?
Why is it always nostalgia nostalgia all the time? There are people who already have positive views on them *now*, why wait 20 years?
And yes if Disney releases some new thing there'll be a faction of viewers who'll say how great the sequels were and how dirty this new release does them - the ebbs and flows of circlejerks are neverending.
> Screw all that revisionist “tHe PrEqUeLs WeRe AcTuAlLy GoOd” bullshit.
Idk depends on who in particular is saying what type of thing;
and define "revisionism" - none of those opinions are "new", the movies had a mixed reception surrounded by haters and fans from the get go.
>Mr. Plinkett was right all along.
About what?
I grew up with the prequels and they’re not nearly as bad as people say.
Attack of the Clones is the weak point of the series for me, but it could be worse — it could be Rogue One!
Its a great way to gauge a new fellow nerd you meet depending how they talk about the prequels. If they think Yoda using a lightsaber and flipping around like a cartoon frog fighting Dooku is cool then I know they are on the wrong side of the pop culture fence.
It's sort of an art nerd vs lore nerd kind of thing I think. Us more artistically inclined nerds understand what makes the lightsaber fight in Empire Strikes Back one of the best and why the prequel fights are all overblown boring bullshit. The nerds that care about lore more than anything don't care. It's hard to explain to somebody that them liking flashy moves and bright lights is wrong. They are sort of wrong but in the end this is all for entertainment and if we can be entertained by the same thing in different ways, that's cool.
That said, the prequel fights suck.
> The nerds that care about lore more than anything don't care. It's hard to explain to somebody that them liking flashy moves and bright lights is wrong.
What does "lore" have to do with "flashy moves"?
For a supposed art connoisseur, your thought process doesn't appear to be very coherent.
In the lore they have lightsaber fighting styles, something I think is fucking stupid as fuck considering there really should be only one fighting style with lightsabers, fencing. But the lore nerds love it and love to delude themselves into thinking the flashy bullshit is deep because it reflects the lore that was written after the movie came out.
I've fought with effectively lightsaber rules before and I can guarantee nobody would be spinning or even winding up for an attack. Resting the blade against your opponent is enough to cause lethal injuries. So all the big flashy moves just leave you more exposed.
That's part of what feeds into my disdain for the prequel fights. Basically every lightsaber fight is "wrong" so the good ones are the ones that don't make me question how the person didn't die 50 times already. So a fight between father and son where the inexperienced swordsman is the only one trying to do actual harm is a lot better than three experienced swordsmen flynning for 20 minutes.
>In the lore they have lightsaber fighting styles, something I think is fucking stupid as fuck considering **there really should be only one fighting style with lightsabers, fencing.** But the lore nerds love it and love to delude themselves into thinking the flashy bullshit is deep because it reflects the lore that was written after the movie came out.
The part about all those EU-invented "styles" is true, however it would seem to be a somewhat marginal aspect here - since not everyone cares about or is familiar with the EU that much, and those post-hoc inventions aren't required to appreciate stylish MA choreography in a movie.
>I've fought with effectively lightsaber rules before and I can guarantee nobody would be spinning or even winding up for an attack. Resting the blade against your opponent is enough to cause lethal injuries. So all the big flashy moves just leave you more exposed.
>That's part of what feeds into my disdain for the prequel fights. Basically every lightsaber fight is "wrong" so the good ones are the ones that don't make me question how the person didn't die 50 times already. So a fight between father and son where the inexperienced swordsman is the only one trying to do actual harm is a lot better than three experienced swordsmen flynning for 20 minutes.
The most obvious and slowest case of "spinning" would be Obi-Wan in IV, although Luke does it at least once in V as well (which hardly can be justified with "his inexperience", even in isolation), so why you would single out the "prequel fights" for this isn't quite clear.
Other than that, you seem to be forgetting about the fact that lightsabers *block one another*, so if nothing else, applying physical force to the moves directed at the opponent's blade (blocking, wrestling, or trying to knock it out of a defensive position to expose the enemy etc.) would seem to still make about the same amount of sense as with any material blade.
Plus, there seems to be arbitrary inconsistency throughout the movies regarding how "weightless" these blades are supposed to be - some scenes seem to depict them as rather heavy, incl. the very 1st time two people are shown crossing blades at all.
All this aside though, it really doesn't seem like these movies were ever making any attempts (certainly any consistent ones) to adhere to realism/logic in these lightsword fights, just as they didn't give a toss about vacuum / zero gravity in space (unless it served the visuals they wanted in particular instances, or what not) - so other than just pointing this stuff out cause it's interesting or whatever, actively holding them to these non-existent standards doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
However MA practitioners probably have a different visceral perception of staged combat, so in that sense why not I suppose.
I'm going to assume you've seen the Plinkett reviews considering what sub you're in right now. So I need you to remember what I said about Empire Strikes Back being one of the best and just take all of that into consideration. If something is going over your head, then you chimed into a conversation where two people were lamenting that the fights in the prequels are just boring over-choreographed shit and the fights in the OT, ESB especially, are more about the actual characters fighting them.
I couldn't care less really how realistic they are. The fights in the OT definitely aren't fencing. But they do a much better job of telling the story through the characters than the fights in the PT. The classic example being Luke wailing on Vader when his emotions are riled vs Obi-Wan facing Maul with basically the exact same bullshit after he killed his master. But when the fight IS just over-choreographed shit, then I'm bored and just watching a super unrealistic swordfight. And matters are made worse when it's done in a prequel, where the outcome is almost always predetermined in a way.
And this is purely anecdotal, so maybe it's not your experience, but the overlap between fans of the prequel series and people who care about lightsaber fighting styles is pretty massive. The latter are almost always the former. But then again, you're the one who started taking this conversation super fucking seriously, so anecdotal evidence is fine.
> I'm going to assume you've seen the Plinkett reviews considering what sub you're in right now. So I need you to remember what I said about Empire Strikes Back being one of the best and just take all of that into consideration
Hm if part of this statement is that you *were* throwing the ANH counterpart under the bus, then that *would* fall in line with the sort of thing RLM would occasionally say, tbf lol
>I couldn't care less really how realistic they are. The fights in the OT definitely aren't fencing. But they do a much better job of telling the story through the characters than the fights in the PT. The classic example being Luke wailing on Vader when his emotions are riled vs Obi-Wan facing Maul with basically the exact same bullshit after he killed his master. But when the fight IS just over-choreographed shit, then I'm bored and just watching a super unrealistic swordfight. And matters are made worse when it's done in a prequel, where the outcome is almost always predetermined in a way.
Ah hm, the "OT had expressive fighting that channeled the characters/storytelling, and PT doesn't therefore making me focus on the realism and physical details" pipeline, yeah ok that is a possible way to react to these things, makes some sense.
I prefer prequel fights over sequel fights.
What supposed to be the Last Jedi fight?
A piece of sh17?
Even Power Rangers have better fights in a TV episode.....
I never mentioned the Sequels. You did.
But also The Force Awakens has a better duel than all of the prequel fights combined. There's more character to it. Kylo getting shot by the bowcaster, a weapon that Han Solo himself e dorses to the audience on screen a half hour before, and then punching himself through the pain the whole time is great and more interesting than any flashy moves.
I almost had a seizure when I read the comments. One was “I used to think that Yoda would fight by just using the force to deflect his opponents attacks or something, but then I saw him take out his lightsaber and thought it was SO BADASS!” I almost fucking wept. I realized those kinds of fans understand Star Wars even less than George Lucas.
That’s what makes it such a bittersweet moment for a viewer. You get the whole thing of Dooku’s old master coming down to sort his shit out, and the lightsaber fight is at least unique in execution, but to see Yoda using only defensive force moves to parry all of his shit and still winning the fight would have been so much cooler
That fight was unintentionally funny for various reasons (even though in the bts footage you can see them express awareness of how it could end up being funny), however they managed to do it right in Ep3
>I almost had a seizure when I read the comments. One was “I used to think that Yoda would fight by just using the force to deflect his opponents attacks or something, but then I saw him take out his lightsaber and thought it was SO BADASS!” I almost fucking wept. I realized those kinds of fans understand Star Wars even less than George Lucas.
You yourself obviously don't understand that whether the OT characters were "using the Force" or swords or neither while locked in a cockpit at any given moment was just up to arbitrary aesthetical decisions by the filmmakers.
This overtakes " No, ***I*** am your father... " as the greatest Star Wars canon moment of all time for me.
Twists are fine, but they're just talking and that's proper boring and in the way of the action sequences. Lysabers are constantly cool and should be on 24/4 even in their holster.
The only other Star War moment that compares is Luke being unable to play with his friends at Taashi Station, as he hadn't completed his chores at that time. That or C3PO hanging off the end of the floating platform in the metalworks. It was a NIGHTmarrrre indeed, but thrilling !
I love that they think these movies had original ideas and world building. I’ve noticed a trend that a lot of the prequel loving sequel haters are weird single men.
Same. I was laughing hysterically watching Yoda bouncing off the walls. I thought it was great. Then as the scene/movie ended and I thought about it, I mentally compared it to the finale of *Empire* - which I watched a million fuckin times as a kid - and even as an eleven year old realized that the tone was just wrong, even if I didn't know exactly why.
What a piece of shit. I fuckin hate AOTC.
I do remember being in the theater being around 14 seeing the phantom manace, when Anikin won the pod race a five year old boy next to me stood up from his seat and screamed yeah! It made me heartbroken and sad. It was then I realized that George was going to make the prequels to cater to everyone but with a focus on children, to sell toys and please his grandsons I guess. When I saw the Plinkett reviews I did get closure, having it explained excatly why I hated the movies really did help.
>t was then I realized that George was going to make the prequels to cater to everyone but with a focus on children, to sell toys and please his grandsons I guess.
Wait I thought you already knew why you hated the movies when that 5 year old kid stood up and said yeah?
I was 13 when the prequels came out. The *perfect* age to slurp this slop up and I thought it was cheesy garbage. Didn’t buy a single toy or rewatch them.
I love Starwars but it's torture going into that sub. It's like a prequel loving club full of 30 years old that watched those movies when their brains were still soft and squishy. Every other post is "why is Anakin better than Hamlet" and " who would win in a lightsaber duel, Anakin or God"
I buy the Plinkett arguments as much as anyone around here, but I thought this was awesome back in the day. I remember I had a clip of the scene that I got from Kazaa or something, and I would watch it over and over.
40 year old Gen X’ers when anyone younger than them who grew up on the prequels express the smallest amount of nostalgia for the prequels:
https://preview.redd.it/8am30wrnu6na1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=cab4e717ea7615ebb3e460c446b74ff53328033c
I remember the entire theater groaning when Yoda pulled out the tiny lightsaber and all of us laughing are asses off at him flipping around. That was a good crowd.
Remember being in the theater in '02 when [this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eho04TtWkAAXSX_.jpg) happened? Really wish I could go back...
Remember being in the studio in 9/11/2001 what that happened? Really wish I could go back...
top 2 worst things to happen that day
1. The Master of Disguise 2. HIV/AIDS and Older Americans
I still wish I was turtley enough…
In 7th grade we couldn’t stop saying that and it’s the only part I remember besides I think Data was in jt lol
Dana Carvey never got the career he deserved. He had a massive heart operation and they worked on the wrong valve ! he had to wait a year to recover so they could do it right, all the time waiting when he could die suddenly at any moment.
I’m not turtely enough for the turtle club?
Yo yo yo don't be hating on that kino
“when Yoda takes out his laser sword”
One of the weirdest side effects of the plinkett reviews is that between the goofy Rich Evans performance and the behind the scenes footage of the prequels I’ve come to genuinely like George Lucas as just a kooky character.
I love that ‘it’s like poetry it rhymes’ has become a more normal thing to say than any quote/phrase from the entire series
I honestly don’t understand why people hate George Lucas so much. Sure, I get people not liking his work, but he seems like an absolute character
Lucas has done a bunch of really cool shit in the film industry but most of it was more on the production side of things. He founded ILM and was instrumental in the creation of Pixar. He resurrected Akira Kurosawa's career when he couldn't get films made and produced other stuff like Labyrinth and Mishima: a Life in Four Chapter. Spielberg, Lucas and Coppola dominated Hollywood in the 80s, with far more interesting projects coming out of that period compared to what we have now.
Because he’s also a huge asshole behind the scenes/in his personal life. He was extremely demeaning to his first wife Marcia Lucas, who helped saved A New Hope with her editing after his initial cut was awful and boring. Her later thanks for it was George telling her that she’s just a stupid girl and he’s the film genius who went to USC.
Lmao this has been disproved years ago Marcia Lucas left production in 1976 btw.
> with her editing after his initial cut was awful and boring. Discredited view I think However not sure where you get "er later thanks for it was George telling her that she’s just a stupid girl and he’s the film genius who went to USC." from, he does have a vindictive streak in him though so who knows
George is just so based I love it
That f*ck still owes me Pizzarolls.😤
You can swear here. This isn’t YouTube.
Gimme a Pizzaroll you 𝗙𝗙𝗙𝗨𝗖𝗞!!!
They clapped, they clapped when they saw it at my theater. God, I hate that movie. Who is Christopher Lee’s character even supposed to be? We barely know anything about him, but we’re supposed to care about this stupid showdown at the end. The clones vs. bugs stuff has no content to it. The nameless Jedi Council, Coruscant and clone world, the bland, plasticky visuals. It’s all so boring and undeveloped, like someone laid down the first layer of a painting and just stopped.
Christopher Lee is the only good thing in that movie. I think when he appears he 100% improved it. It's clearly before that the movie is crap. Thank God for Lee.
And then you watch The Clone Wars series and there's a lightsaber fight nearly every episode between characters who you know aren't going to kill each other because they show up in the movies later.
TCW IS NOT A KIDS SHOW! It is very dark
My stool is dark and I don't want to stare at that either.
I do, send pics
Dear Mr. Plinkett
Why, he’s the legendary Count Dooku! Half dookie, half doodoo, all shit.
> God, I hate that movie. Who is Christopher Lee’s character even supposed to be? We barely know anything about him, Separatist leader, pretends to be an idealist and then drops mask and turns out to be a condescending asshole, tries to kill/execute the good guys etc. - also talks about / is involved in shadowy conspiracies or something. >but we’re supposed to care about this stupid showdown at the end. Even if all that stuff hadn't been there, he still would've been a charismatic antagonist which is more than enough to get most viewers invested. >The clones vs. bugs stuff has no content to it. Well it was mostly in the background. >The nameless Jedi Council, Its 2-3 main members are really the only ones that matter and they all have names lol; why did you want the background extras to all get names? >Coruscant and clone world, the bland, plasticky visuals. No idea what you mean
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Screw all that revisionist “tHe PrEqUeLs WeRe AcTuAlLy GoOd” bullshit. Mr. Plinkett was right all along.
Lots of "the sequels are worse!!" comebacks online nowadays. All made by people who feel nostalgia for the dogshit prequels. Fuck that all 6 movies are shit.
The sequels are much more competent on a technical level but the prequels are much more interesting from a "how did this get made?" perspective and are more entertaining, even if only in an ironic way.
Revenge of the Sith has the fact that every single frame of the movie is a meme now going for it though.
Yeah and the room is a great film too
Haha! What a story, Mark
tbh I'd rather watch the prequels, even though I agree the sequels are much better made. the prequels just have some schlocky, corny quality to them that makes them a little charming, but the sequels are trying so hard to be self-aware that it just makes me cringe the whole time.
That all makes sense to me, but I still haven't watched Attack of the Clones all the way through. It's basically not even a movie.
it's a filmé
star wars episode 2 attack of the clones is the worst thing ever made by a human **Including** the bagpipes
Yeah but they're shit in different ways cause they were made by different people in different ways and different approaches. George had a singular vision but was bad at implementing it, Disney was all over the place. Some people prefer the bad prequels to the bad sequels, doesn't take science to figure that one out. Now, the stuff in the post is more nostalgia than anyone saying the movies were *good* per se, the person just said they wanna go back to when they were a kid presumably. Edit: Lmfao if you disagree at least add something don't just downvote...this sub never ceases to fascinate
>George had a singular vision but was bad at implementing it No, his vision was implemented perfectly. He had the best implementation money could buy, and he oversaw every step. If the result was bad, it's because the underlying vision was bad.
No, you're talking about *production*, not implementation. Money =/= quality, how many times do we need to repeat this. You can't really look at that script for instance (which he insisted on writing) and call that perfect implementation. He had a vision as a creator, but failed as a writer was my point. And it was also a rush job in many ways, so far from perfect. RLM literally covered this when looking at the behind the scenes footage in their reviews. And I'm not really having the same old argument we've been having for 20 years over this, that wasn't even the point of my comment anyways.
I don’t agree about perfect execution, but I do think you can really tell which of the films he worked on and there’s a genuine sense of auteurship running through episodes 1 to 6.
There is a evel of hypocrisy about Lucas "doing his vision" and people doing commercial BS and looking good. I dunno. Probably commercial movies are not so bad. But still are less artistic than somebody doing it with some artistic merit. But the sequels are definitive worse.
> There is a evel of hypocrisy about Lucas "doing his vision" and people doing commercial BS and looking good. I dunno. So do you know or not? Like you just said your take but never actually elaborated. How is it hypocritical? And who's doing commercial BS and looking good? I don't really understand what you're trying to say here.
> All made by people who feel nostalgia for the dogshit prequels. Chucking it all up to "nostalgia" is just a circlejerky notion that you took from other commenters
Look a lot of people were kids back then. Those films were pretty good if you were a kid. Kids are idiots. I suppose some kids would have just thought it was cool to see star wars on the big screen or be getting any new movies after star wars just being those 3 movies for the whole life. But like kids are idiots so who cares. Also there is a thing where people remember the past being much better than it actually was. Often it's because they were a kid and didn't have to worry about shit so the look back fondly to a time before having to pay bills or worrying about climate change. Some people have a vision of the past that is some weird fantasy that never existed. Like those weridos who think the 60s were amazing despite being born in the 80s.
I recently made a video talking about Plinkett’s prequel reviews and saying they’re still great works of criticism and every comment I got was from schizophrenic teenagers trying to defend the prequels. One kid kept repeatedly begging people to watch his 4+ hour “rebuttal”. It’s nuts.
That’s so odd. I love the prequels, but I also love the Plinkett reviews and I can’t say they’re wrong about almost anything they say.
Yeah my overall sentiment in the piece is that the prequels are objectively bad movies but people of a certain generation - myself included, born in ‘94 - are going to enjoy them anyway out of nostalgia. I thought this wouldn’t be controversial but I was wrong lol. There are just legions of people willing to defend them to death as good films.
Speak for yourself. I remember being bored to tears by Attack of the Clones as a 7 year old... except for the brief action scenes. But considering Lord of the Rings was coming out at the same time, it's pretty shocking the difference in quality.
> and I can’t say they’re wrong about almost anything they say. Cause you didn't pay attention to what they were saying, probably.
Very cool
> I recently made a video talking about Plinkett’s prequel reviews and saying they’re still great works of criticism and every comment I got was from schizophrenic teenagers trying to defend the prequels. Those schizo teenagers may very well have been full of tshi themselves, but the Plinquel reviews are largely an incohesive hackjob with some half-truths mixed in here and there. > One kid kept repeatedly begging people to watch his 4+ hour “rebuttal”. It’s nuts. And did you watch it and determine how it was wrong?
incohesive? Yeah, about that . . .
. . . ?
TIME TO GO IN THE REFRIGERATOR
That's what he said!!
Maybe the prequels aren’t good. But in 20 years time, will anybody be nostalgic for the sequel trilogy?
Yes, there will be another generation that grew up on the sequels and swears up and down that they’re the best SW movies because of their childhood nostalgia goggles. “No, I’ve never seen *The Empire Strikes Back* but it just sounds stupid. The Empire is just like a lame old version of the truly terrifying First Order. And the sequels give you most of the old characters anyway, plus all of the new iconic characters like Captain Phasma and Babu Frik.”
>Yes, there will be another generation that grew up on the sequels and swears up and down that they’re the best SW movies because of their childhood nostalgia goggles. I mean there are already non-children who like or praise them right now.
> Maybe the prequels aren’t good. But in 20 years time, will anybody be nostalgic for the sequel trilogy? Why is it always nostalgia nostalgia all the time? There are people who already have positive views on them *now*, why wait 20 years? And yes if Disney releases some new thing there'll be a faction of viewers who'll say how great the sequels were and how dirty this new release does them - the ebbs and flows of circlejerks are neverending.
> Screw all that revisionist “tHe PrEqUeLs WeRe AcTuAlLy GoOd” bullshit. Idk depends on who in particular is saying what type of thing; and define "revisionism" - none of those opinions are "new", the movies had a mixed reception surrounded by haters and fans from the get go. >Mr. Plinkett was right all along. About what?
I grew up with the prequels and they’re not nearly as bad as people say. Attack of the Clones is the weak point of the series for me, but it could be worse — it could be Rogue One!
Oh, I wish I could go back alright and watch something else.
Its a great way to gauge a new fellow nerd you meet depending how they talk about the prequels. If they think Yoda using a lightsaber and flipping around like a cartoon frog fighting Dooku is cool then I know they are on the wrong side of the pop culture fence.
It's sort of an art nerd vs lore nerd kind of thing I think. Us more artistically inclined nerds understand what makes the lightsaber fight in Empire Strikes Back one of the best and why the prequel fights are all overblown boring bullshit. The nerds that care about lore more than anything don't care. It's hard to explain to somebody that them liking flashy moves and bright lights is wrong. They are sort of wrong but in the end this is all for entertainment and if we can be entertained by the same thing in different ways, that's cool. That said, the prequel fights suck.
> The nerds that care about lore more than anything don't care. It's hard to explain to somebody that them liking flashy moves and bright lights is wrong. What does "lore" have to do with "flashy moves"? For a supposed art connoisseur, your thought process doesn't appear to be very coherent.
In the lore they have lightsaber fighting styles, something I think is fucking stupid as fuck considering there really should be only one fighting style with lightsabers, fencing. But the lore nerds love it and love to delude themselves into thinking the flashy bullshit is deep because it reflects the lore that was written after the movie came out. I've fought with effectively lightsaber rules before and I can guarantee nobody would be spinning or even winding up for an attack. Resting the blade against your opponent is enough to cause lethal injuries. So all the big flashy moves just leave you more exposed. That's part of what feeds into my disdain for the prequel fights. Basically every lightsaber fight is "wrong" so the good ones are the ones that don't make me question how the person didn't die 50 times already. So a fight between father and son where the inexperienced swordsman is the only one trying to do actual harm is a lot better than three experienced swordsmen flynning for 20 minutes.
>In the lore they have lightsaber fighting styles, something I think is fucking stupid as fuck considering **there really should be only one fighting style with lightsabers, fencing.** But the lore nerds love it and love to delude themselves into thinking the flashy bullshit is deep because it reflects the lore that was written after the movie came out. The part about all those EU-invented "styles" is true, however it would seem to be a somewhat marginal aspect here - since not everyone cares about or is familiar with the EU that much, and those post-hoc inventions aren't required to appreciate stylish MA choreography in a movie. >I've fought with effectively lightsaber rules before and I can guarantee nobody would be spinning or even winding up for an attack. Resting the blade against your opponent is enough to cause lethal injuries. So all the big flashy moves just leave you more exposed. >That's part of what feeds into my disdain for the prequel fights. Basically every lightsaber fight is "wrong" so the good ones are the ones that don't make me question how the person didn't die 50 times already. So a fight between father and son where the inexperienced swordsman is the only one trying to do actual harm is a lot better than three experienced swordsmen flynning for 20 minutes. The most obvious and slowest case of "spinning" would be Obi-Wan in IV, although Luke does it at least once in V as well (which hardly can be justified with "his inexperience", even in isolation), so why you would single out the "prequel fights" for this isn't quite clear. Other than that, you seem to be forgetting about the fact that lightsabers *block one another*, so if nothing else, applying physical force to the moves directed at the opponent's blade (blocking, wrestling, or trying to knock it out of a defensive position to expose the enemy etc.) would seem to still make about the same amount of sense as with any material blade. Plus, there seems to be arbitrary inconsistency throughout the movies regarding how "weightless" these blades are supposed to be - some scenes seem to depict them as rather heavy, incl. the very 1st time two people are shown crossing blades at all. All this aside though, it really doesn't seem like these movies were ever making any attempts (certainly any consistent ones) to adhere to realism/logic in these lightsword fights, just as they didn't give a toss about vacuum / zero gravity in space (unless it served the visuals they wanted in particular instances, or what not) - so other than just pointing this stuff out cause it's interesting or whatever, actively holding them to these non-existent standards doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. However MA practitioners probably have a different visceral perception of staged combat, so in that sense why not I suppose.
I'm going to assume you've seen the Plinkett reviews considering what sub you're in right now. So I need you to remember what I said about Empire Strikes Back being one of the best and just take all of that into consideration. If something is going over your head, then you chimed into a conversation where two people were lamenting that the fights in the prequels are just boring over-choreographed shit and the fights in the OT, ESB especially, are more about the actual characters fighting them. I couldn't care less really how realistic they are. The fights in the OT definitely aren't fencing. But they do a much better job of telling the story through the characters than the fights in the PT. The classic example being Luke wailing on Vader when his emotions are riled vs Obi-Wan facing Maul with basically the exact same bullshit after he killed his master. But when the fight IS just over-choreographed shit, then I'm bored and just watching a super unrealistic swordfight. And matters are made worse when it's done in a prequel, where the outcome is almost always predetermined in a way. And this is purely anecdotal, so maybe it's not your experience, but the overlap between fans of the prequel series and people who care about lightsaber fighting styles is pretty massive. The latter are almost always the former. But then again, you're the one who started taking this conversation super fucking seriously, so anecdotal evidence is fine.
> I'm going to assume you've seen the Plinkett reviews considering what sub you're in right now. So I need you to remember what I said about Empire Strikes Back being one of the best and just take all of that into consideration Hm if part of this statement is that you *were* throwing the ANH counterpart under the bus, then that *would* fall in line with the sort of thing RLM would occasionally say, tbf lol >I couldn't care less really how realistic they are. The fights in the OT definitely aren't fencing. But they do a much better job of telling the story through the characters than the fights in the PT. The classic example being Luke wailing on Vader when his emotions are riled vs Obi-Wan facing Maul with basically the exact same bullshit after he killed his master. But when the fight IS just over-choreographed shit, then I'm bored and just watching a super unrealistic swordfight. And matters are made worse when it's done in a prequel, where the outcome is almost always predetermined in a way. Ah hm, the "OT had expressive fighting that channeled the characters/storytelling, and PT doesn't therefore making me focus on the realism and physical details" pipeline, yeah ok that is a possible way to react to these things, makes some sense.
I prefer prequel fights over sequel fights. What supposed to be the Last Jedi fight? A piece of sh17? Even Power Rangers have better fights in a TV episode.....
I never mentioned the Sequels. You did. But also The Force Awakens has a better duel than all of the prequel fights combined. There's more character to it. Kylo getting shot by the bowcaster, a weapon that Han Solo himself e dorses to the audience on screen a half hour before, and then punching himself through the pain the whole time is great and more interesting than any flashy moves.
TFA a better fight? Between two characters that barely knew each other? And because Kylo wwas wounded that makes it better? Nah, it midly OK.
I almost had a seizure when I read the comments. One was “I used to think that Yoda would fight by just using the force to deflect his opponents attacks or something, but then I saw him take out his lightsaber and thought it was SO BADASS!” I almost fucking wept. I realized those kinds of fans understand Star Wars even less than George Lucas.
That’s what makes it such a bittersweet moment for a viewer. You get the whole thing of Dooku’s old master coming down to sort his shit out, and the lightsaber fight is at least unique in execution, but to see Yoda using only defensive force moves to parry all of his shit and still winning the fight would have been so much cooler
That fight was unintentionally funny for various reasons (even though in the bts footage you can see them express awareness of how it could end up being funny), however they managed to do it right in Ep3
>I almost had a seizure when I read the comments. One was “I used to think that Yoda would fight by just using the force to deflect his opponents attacks or something, but then I saw him take out his lightsaber and thought it was SO BADASS!” I almost fucking wept. I realized those kinds of fans understand Star Wars even less than George Lucas. You yourself obviously don't understand that whether the OT characters were "using the Force" or swords or neither while locked in a cockpit at any given moment was just up to arbitrary aesthetical decisions by the filmmakers.
This overtakes " No, ***I*** am your father... " as the greatest Star Wars canon moment of all time for me. Twists are fine, but they're just talking and that's proper boring and in the way of the action sequences. Lysabers are constantly cool and should be on 24/4 even in their holster. The only other Star War moment that compares is Luke being unable to play with his friends at Taashi Station, as he hadn't completed his chores at that time. That or C3PO hanging off the end of the floating platform in the metalworks. It was a NIGHTmarrrre indeed, but thrilling !
"Then Yoda takes out his laser sword, does a backflip, snaps the bad guy's neck, and saves the day."
I love that they think these movies had original ideas and world building. I’ve noticed a trend that a lot of the prequel loving sequel haters are weird single men.
For a moment I was like, what? What happened? And then I realized, oh yeah, Yoda fighting with the laser sword, that's so cool I think?
I swear the people that make comments like this have never seen an actual good movie in their life.
I think he’s having a seizure since someone stole his pills.
My friends and I were 10-11 years old at this time and we all were dying laughing from how stupid it looked and Yoda's war cries
yeah lol
All I remember is the condescending/dismissive laugh throughout the theater when he grabbed his walking stick again at the end of the fight.
"Begun, the arthritis wars have. "
Lol baby brains.
I remember being in the theatre and it *erupting* with laughter when this happened.
Same. I was laughing hysterically watching Yoda bouncing off the walls. I thought it was great. Then as the scene/movie ended and I thought about it, I mentally compared it to the finale of *Empire* - which I watched a million fuckin times as a kid - and even as an eleven year old realized that the tone was just wrong, even if I didn't know exactly why. What a piece of shit. I fuckin hate AOTC.
I do remember being in the theater being around 14 seeing the phantom manace, when Anikin won the pod race a five year old boy next to me stood up from his seat and screamed yeah! It made me heartbroken and sad. It was then I realized that George was going to make the prequels to cater to everyone but with a focus on children, to sell toys and please his grandsons I guess. When I saw the Plinkett reviews I did get closure, having it explained excatly why I hated the movies really did help.
Those reviews were so validating because everyone I knew thought they were good.
>t was then I realized that George was going to make the prequels to cater to everyone but with a focus on children, to sell toys and please his grandsons I guess. Wait I thought you already knew why you hated the movies when that 5 year old kid stood up and said yeah?
4 year old me thought this was the fucking cool shit ever conceived by man, behind the coliseum scene with 500 Jedi using lightsabers at once
I was 13 when the prequels came out. The *perfect* age to slurp this slop up and I thought it was cheesy garbage. Didn’t buy a single toy or rewatch them.
I love Starwars but it's torture going into that sub. It's like a prequel loving club full of 30 years old that watched those movies when their brains were still soft and squishy. Every other post is "why is Anakin better than Hamlet" and " who would win in a lightsaber duel, Anakin or God"
Somewhere the pizza rolls are burning...
Prequels are sub-par but not deliberately destroying the mythos and Luke, hating the fans like the ST does.
ep2 Anakin might have a word
Might, but Jake Skywalker was still worse.
Very very arguable to say the least.
Midichlorians
Ouch.
I didn't know the Star Wars movies got releases on Lanulos.
I buy the Plinkett arguments as much as anyone around here, but I thought this was awesome back in the day. I remember I had a clip of the scene that I got from Kazaa or something, and I would watch it over and over.
[This](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB4Lu-99jmk) is gonna blow your mind then
"Really wish I could go back" and sabotage George Lucas so these films would never be made.
40 year old Gen X’ers when anyone younger than them who grew up on the prequels express the smallest amount of nostalgia for the prequels: https://preview.redd.it/8am30wrnu6na1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=cab4e717ea7615ebb3e460c446b74ff53328033c
I remember the entire theater groaning when Yoda pulled out the tiny lightsaber and all of us laughing are asses off at him flipping around. That was a good crowd.
I do. Everyone laughed. I don’t think it was meant to be funny.
I wasn't in the theaters for this because I remembered what happened with episode 1
Remember when I gave a fuck about this franchise. I just don’t care when they spew out trash or even actual good content anymore.
A part of me died when this happened.
I remember. People laughed.