What criticism do you disagree with?
By - Fate2690
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I wouldn't say Faunus shouldn't have been created so much as something unique should have been done with them. Or handle them better.
Taking everyone to Vacuo is horrible idea. I've moved from the African equator to Washington State and even with all my coats, the change in climate is really frustrating.
For RWBY being family with Yang... it's kind of written in a way that honestly, I don't think the story would change much if they were cousins. That said, I'd prefer to keep them as sisters.
I tend to disagree with the criticism of Jaune losing it when he met Cinder at Haven. It was indicated that what happened to Pyrrha was still something that was effecting him. From most likely blaming himself, to blaming Qrow and Ozpin, to finally meeting Cinder. It was just something that had been building up in him with no real way to vent those feelings.
We also forget that, while maybe young adults, these are not necessarily battle hardened soldiers. They're people who haven't been taught and don't know how to process the trauma they experience and probably haven't gotten help in doing so. It makes sense for him to just blow up and at some point and Cinder just did the trick.
It's also not the first time in fiction that a character loses it when confronting someone who hurt them or their friends and does something crazy or stupid. Yet they tend to get a pass or get excused for it more often than not.
I also tend to dislike or disagree with the whole Qrow should be/is Ruby's father.
Part of this is because the mental gymnastics involved to make him being her actual father fit within what we know lead to some crazy outcomes where everybody, including Yang, is a liar, Tai somehow not being pissed at Qrow, or Summer and Qrow just being total jerks or using Tai. It also usually doesn't explain why Tai is put out of commission by Summer's death, but Qrow is still in a good enough state to find Yang when she runs off.
Another part is that it's not impossible for a person to have someone who is like a parent to them or for a mentor to have a father figure status. It doesn't require an actual blood connection and can be just as strong as any other familial bond. That's part of why when some stories insist a blood connection with someone you don't know I'd somehow stronger or more important than with the unrelated people who raised you or stood by your side for years, it pisses me off. Being related by blood doesn't create some magical bond that supercedes any other, yet people will treat it like it does.
I also don't like the criticism that every place but Vacuo was a bad decision to send people to. Yes, other kingdoms have their issues, but still seem to be in better positions to help people than a the resource strapped one in the middle of a desert that has a history of animosity towards the refugees you're bringing over.
Saying Vacuo is full of hunters isn't a good justification either. Vale is full of hunters too. Atlas had hunters and a military and was still destroyed. Mistral still has huntsmen and Argus has soldiers still.
There's also the fact you are literally putting the people you saved immediately back into the line of fire by taking them to Salem's next target and turning them into potential meatshields that will probably catch the worst of the initial assault on Shade! Also, they didn't expect to lose the staff, so there's no reason they couldn't have planned to take the refugees somewhere else and then use it to go to Vacuo! It is like saying the safest place to evacuate civilians to is the frontline of a warzone because there are lots of soldiers there!
I don't really care either way about the Qrow being Ruby's father theory and do agree that the "blood is the most important bond" is weaksauce compared to bonds forged by mutually supporting parties. However, I think the Qrow Ruby theory came around because CRWBY sucks at doing dynamics. The problem isn't that Yang seems pretty close to her dad Tai in isolation, it's that Tai seems to not give a shit about Ruby. I genuinely don't remember if Tai even spends 5 minutes in show talking to Ruby. Similarly, Qrow has no one-on-one moments with Yang despite Yang also being his niece just like Ruby. I'd argue it is even more baffling that Yang doesn't pester Qrow about Raven more if she was as desperate about it as she appeared to be in V2.
It's possible for an older family member (uncle, aunt, grandparents, etc.) to hang out more with one of the younger members because of shared hobbies. Yang and Tai have a dynamic. Qrow and Ruby have a dynamic as well. However, Tai and Qrow having practically no dynamic with the other girls is jarring and doesn't make sense.
True and for as little as Tai is in the show, they barely have him interact with Ruby. Yes, he seemed to have been keeping vigil by her bed after the fall of Beacon, but Qrow basically making him leave just to talk about something they bother know about is bizarre. It would've been better if Tai refused or argued he didn't want Ruby dragged into things more than she already had been.
It's also bizarre that Qrow almost never talks to Yang. I don't think he has since Volume 3 actually.
> Tai seems to not give a shit about Ruby. I genuinely don't remember if Tai even spends 5 minutes in show talking to Ruby.
I mean it’s said when Tai and Ruby only seem to get father/daughter moments in the frickin non-canon comedic spin-off.
I agree with everything you said
The biggest one for me is that rwby has nothing if value and that there isn't a single thing in the show worth saving.
It is a very flawed show for a lot of complicated reasons, half of which I don't blame the creators for. It can be bloody agonizing to watch sometimes but that's only because it doesn't take much to see how marvelous a creation it is and how great it could go onto be. And it's frustrating to see it faulter
I completely disagree with the "RWBY can't have a reboot" criticism and suddenly they start comparing the idea to FMAB and other moves; I think a complete reboot of the show is needed for it to be "good". I also disagree with those who say they should remove the maidens, magic and salem.... Oh right, I'm probably saying goodbye to a good amount of karma but: the show would be better in other hands, under the direction of real professionals and without that "what Monty would have wanted".... Man, Monty is dead, let the man rest, I don't hate him or anything, but the vision he had for the show went along with him and who knows, maybe it wasn't the best anyway.
Shipping being a big problem and a lot of Bumblebee critique in general.
Adam was ruined. It was more like they hinted at something greater and didn't do anything with it. Wasted potential, sure. Ruined, no.
Ironwood being 100% right in V7. He shot Oscar (which is kind of a huge step) but more importantly his plans were nonsensical from the start. He wanted to tell the cities and defend them but didn't realise how dumb it is to prioritise Amity so much because if they're going to defend Mantle it needs to be able to be defended. The wall needed to be repaired before he revealed Salem for that reason (the tiny hole in the wall and no one else fixing it is dumb still). He also wanted to leave with Atlas forever which doesn't work since they don't have renewable resources. Sure, RWBY were worse but he wasn't as correct as it seemed at first.
Honestly I don't think Adam himself was ruined but moreso the idea he was trying to represent. If Adam was just an ordinary antagonist with no projected potential I don't think there would be so much hate.
But add in the fact that Adam is meant to represent extremely important factions during the civil rights movement? Compile that with how Illia is just Adam but better? Add onto that just how fucking horribly the Faunus plot was written?
Imo Adam was ruined because he represented something much greater that the writers were too lazy to put further research into.
I wouldn't call that ruined. If a character is ruined in my view, they had something that was destroyed. Be it mindset, principles, themes etc. It's about whether something that existed was damaged heavily or not. Adam had potential for all of those but none actually ever existed beyond vague hints.
I would argue that Adam's morals were heavily damaged, and not just in vague hints. It's just we didn't get to see all to much of him before he kinda became a laughing stock.
Personally I feel like the retcons are what destroyed a part of his principles. We clearly see in his interactions with Cinder that he values the safety of his Faunus troops first. That was ruined when V4-5 did the entire,
"Whoop! Gotcha! Adam never cared about the Faunus whatsoever, he was pretending all along!". Whilst you can definitely argue that Adam himself didn't have much of a character beforehand he was acknowledged to represent something bigger which didn't pan out.
Like for example: If your character is meant to be a stand in for a certain ideology which has an actual basis IRL. If said character goes from somewhat of an anti-hero to a complete and utter blathering mess which no longer seems to care that it's representing that actually harms and affects people, that's a ruined character. Even if you think that specifically the Civil rights era being represented was just a "vague hint" (though I believe Miles and Kerry have directly referred to and spoke about that era in specific when talking about RWBY), it still deals with a real life topic.
I mean you can value humans over faunus but still fight other faunus. Adam is an extreme radical. Sure he values his fellow faunus over Cinder's cause but that doesn't mean he's not willing to harm other faunus. I wouldn't say him ignoring WF politics after V5 is character development. Poorly written and uninteresting development but there are reasons he continually cares less about his old goals. It was a bad direction to take him in but it's not retconning his character.
I don't think he was ever any kind of an anti-hero. There was potential for it but it wasn't actually in the show itself. If there is word of god that he's supposed to represent the US civil rights era I'll accept it but I'm pretty sure there isn't.
What I really meant was the entire "he never cared for the faunus" shtick that the writer's attempted to pull with Blake's speech and the general fan reactions. My point wasn't that he'd never harm a faunus, but that the other volumes basically tried to make it seem as if all of his positive qualities were just an act which is a horrible and boring direction to go through. His character devolved into basically screaming about Blake and being homophobic was what ruined it for me personally.
I was moreso talking about the ideals painting him more as an anti-hero than a straight up villain, but I probably should've said antagonist. A lot of people before V4-5 could somewhat relate to the idea of a victim of racism standing up for others, that's the reason I refer to his ideals so much. It might not seem like it now but people really vibed with what Adam represented in V1-3. Even if he did bad things he wasn't as, how do I say it? Cartoonish? As he was in V5.
And as for the historical counterpart idea, I'm not sure if they exactly mentioned that. But I know that during the production of RWBY (I believe somewhere in V3-4ish) American civil rights became a hot topic again which did affect how they handled the WF. Even if not intentional there are still multiple parallels to how different sides of the Civil Rights movement were portrayed in popular media, the clear references to segregation, and in general how hatred of the faunus is portrayed as well... Racism and not xenophobia (Plus they're located in America with American viewers so it's only natural that a racism subplot would get people thinking of a big racist event which was happening not even a century ago).
Tl;Dr: Adam was ruined because intentionally or not he became intrinsically linked to a plot which spoke about real world issues. Instead of handling this plot's heavy thematic ties with any form of grace and respect, they basically turned what was originally an attempt at moral greyness into a cartoon villain. All whilst trying to retcon any previously perceived positive qualities by the fandom.
Ah okay I see your point. The writers openly disregarding even the hint at depth is undoing it. The commentaries are very clear about how they view him - an angry evil ex man. Even his branding is spoken about casually and nonspecifically. I actually agree with that point.
Eh unless they come out and say it was intented to be a specific analogy I'll judge it for what it is. It's bad still but not because it poorly reflects real world events
Eh even if it's not meant to be specifically about the civil rights era they still did a horrible fucking job representing the issue in the story. And the ideology of the Belladonna's makes no fucking sense.
Imo it's kinda similar to Ironwood because they basically took a character who had depth and was centered around a nuanced issue, then acted like it never existed in the first place. Personally I'm more forgiveable towards Ironwood's scenario because while yes he was ruined much more (He actually was a good character), Adam is basically tied to a nuanced issue which was handled with all the respect of a USP delivery man carrying a fragile object.
Oh yeah the entire WF plot is confusing and poorly constructed in general. I think where it was over when they killed off the middle path between violence and peaceful activism in the form of Sienna. Making Adam strictly evil in all ways also damaged it but I think both of them were necessary for the complexity of such an issue.
I think the problem is that the sides are so extreme that there's no room for the necessary nuance.
The Belladonna's philosophy and actions reflect on similar nonviolence movements such as MLK and Ghandi but fail to understand why non violence works in the first place. Adam's own morals seem to be in line with this skewed version of the Black Panthers that's often seen in media.
The problem is that the radical WF are basically portrayed as actual fucking terrorists whereas the "good" WF don't fucking do anything until the last second and are counterrevolutionary. The end of V5 treats it like people will begin to respect the Faunus after Adam's faction is arrested when in all honesty that wouldn't be the case lol. Historically this basically never happens and companies which already profited off of Faunus labor would literally have no incentive to be kind to the Faunus (because the Radical WF won't punish them for their actions anymore). It reeks of some white guy who thinks he knows all about civil rights when in reality he fundamentally fucks up at writing the ideals of said movements
Well I personaly never understood the whole Adam hype to be honest, sure his design/fighting style look cool/edgy I guess. Tho it is unlucky how they portraid him in Vol6.
A lot of people complained about the RWBY vs Ace Ops fight(myself included), but besides Marrows semblance we never really see the Ace Ops do something outstanding, sure they fought a Geist and had to make sure the dust doesn't explode, but RWBY could've done that too.
I don't really get why everyone likes to hate on people who ship characters, yea sure there are toxic shippers, but every fandom has toxic(and loud) people everywhere.
Take the Reylo shippers for example, a lot of them are nutcases for threatening producers and actors, but that doesn't mean every shipper is like that lol
That Sun deserved to get slapped. If it wasn’t good for Adam or Jacques to do it, it shouldn’t be okay for Blake. How am I supposed to feel bad for her when she’s acting like this? Not saying she needs to be crying or whimpering in a corner but this opposite extreme is not the solution.
The first two I'm not really willing to debate over, because I've done it at least a dozen times on 3 different platforms:
That Clover was equally at fault for the Vol 7 carrier crash and his death. - never agreed with this, listed so many times how that ignores the context of the situation or shifts blame away from the ones who had actually caused these things.
That Ironwood shooting Oscar made sense- at first critics and fans disagreed on this, but then later on critics started saying "Well, Ironwood shooting Oscar could make sense IF-" No. You tell everyone else to arrest them. And you even arrest the man who caused you to lose your remaining arm. But you shoot literally the youngest child who've you interacted with only a handful of times but each time there was no kind of animosity, and within this child is the soul of your oldest friend... That was a cheap writing decision.
The Neo vs Maria fight was horrendous.
I've heard so many people across the aisle praised this fight. And I have had to remind people so many times that this fight was incredibly slowed down in comparison to previous seasons, and Maria simply having reflexes for a semblance, doesnt mean at her age, while needing help on multiple occasions from other, after 20 years of retirement, would be able to *whoop* Neo's ass.
That there was something wrong with Mantle having a hole in it. I think that there only needed to be either a small scene or references of the struggle to build something strong, permanent, and fast enough before the next grimm attack ruins it. Or maybe reference how because of where it was damaged they would have to take down parts of the wall itself in order to erect something else, and no one's really down to do that. Or Hell, make it so that this wall is actually incredibly old and people just keep reinforcing and reinforcing, but there comes a point where you actually have to tear it down and construct an entirely new wall with modern-day materials from the inside and out, and of course everyone's paranoid and no one really wants to do that. But yeah I never minded that there was a hole. It just adds flavor.
I dissagree with some of the more extreme fans of Ironwood and Adam who claim that those characters were changed completely or did an unexpected 180 in their characterization.
I most definitely disagree with the claim that Adam was "murdered" by Yang and Blake and that he should have been taken alive.
I disagree with the claim that Raven as a character was mishandled.
I don't think Adam nor Ironwood did a 180 but at the same time it's more complex then that.
Yeah Adam's personality was semi-consistent but given the real life implications of what he was meant to represent (Dealing with the nuanced issue of Racism) and the fact that many of Adam's positive traits (his passions for protecting the faunus) were straight up retconned/deleted in order to make him look worse, is what leads people to say that.
I don't think Ironwood did a 180 either, but they jumped the gun to where his characterization in V8 was so drastically different and instead of becoming interesting he became a boring and tired cliché who was horrifically incompetent.
Wait, people thought they should have taken Adam alive? No, even as an Adam fan, his fate was always gonna be death. I just wished he got so much more respect for his character, but he was definitely doomed to die regardless
I think he should have been taken alive. I mean, we should have had that confrontation between Weiss and the brand on Adam's face.
Plus, having Adam taken to Atlas to be put on trial and executed would have been a nice touch. We almost never see things like that happening. Maybe we could have learned more about Adam, the White Fang and Atlas itself through the trial.
It would have even raised moral in Atlas, since the White Fang under Adam was a racist terrorist organization worse than the real life Black Panthers were, so having the head of the snake taken out would have given the people hope for a good change in the future now that the White Fang was crippled.
But instead he got murked and thrown in the ocean.
There's no verification for the people and authorities of Atlas that Adam is dead. They have the word of RWBYJNR, but RWBYJNR turned out to be fucking liars so why assume they were truthful about Adam when they weren't about anything else?
Even though Adam would have been killed regardless of if he was taken in alive or not (not necessarily), it would have been the smarter decision overall.
Fair enough. Either way, Adam getting axed the way he did was definitely one of the things that killed any hopes of me watching the show ever again
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They tried it usually swing it that he should have been take alive, because Huntsman act as policeman, and you're not supposed to be the judge jury and executioner? But if you're actively trying to kill a policeman, they have every right to shoot you like anyone else does? I think they mainly say this just because as soon as you kill off a character, that's it that characters never really thought of ever again, so now we'll never know how he got that scar
I think you can argue ravens underutilized but mishandled is a bit of a stretch
I disagree with those who call Ironwood a villain in the sense that he is as bad as Cinder. Ironwood turned bad but he classifies as an Anti-villain. He and Ruby had the same end goal (saving Remnant/Atlas) but their methods were vastly different (Ruby did good methods while IW gave into his PTSD and went mad.)
Secondly, I disagree with all the hate Jaune gets on the basis of his screen time. Jaune is the main deuteragonist and the male protagonist. Sure RWBY is the story of Team RWBY but Jaune is part of their story. If we followed the concept of ‘RWBY should only be about RWBY’ then Naruto should only be about Naruto Uzumaki.. not Kiba, Kakashi, Sasuke, Sakura, etc.
"Ironwood is autism coded".
Like, what? PTSD I can get, but Autism? Like, I get what they mean but... Penny is more autistic coded than Ironwood. All Ironwood has is that his stubbornness is literally a Semblance.
I disagree with the criticism that jaune gets too much screen time.
A, He’s a main character, he should be allowed to do things
B, it’s not that team Rwby has to little screen time, it’s that their screen time sucks. They spent so much time sitting around and faffing about that they don’t do anything. If they had the same level of productivity jaune had, they would be way better than him
I agree with this one plus add in the fact that jaune was introduced to us as an everyman and a very flawed character. It makes every improvement he does more noticeable than team rwby.
He’s an Everyman because he lied and cheated to get into the school, that’s not exactly a reason to root for him.
Yeah, he lied and cheated to get a huntsman license for personal gain. You know who else lied and cheated? Blake and ruby. Blake lied about being a Faunus and ruby skipped two grades by showing off with vigilantism
Blake was a terrorist too right if stealing dust and blowing up trains count
Blake took a test that showed she had the skills to get in and Ozpin let Ruby in after seeing her in action so no they didn't lie about their skill level like Jaune did.
I would have to agree to you if it's a regular school but it's a huntsman academy and if you look at it they need all the help they can get against the grimm.
Its not help if he's only really qualified to be a meat shield at best.
That's the same meat shield that coordinated an attack against a big deathstalker lol
He’s passing his classes and was taking out decent sized ursa in the v2 finale. He’s a bit more than meat shield
>He’s passing his classes and was taking out decent sized ursa in the v2 finale.
Because he had Pyrrha the prodigy helping him out.
Yes. You assume no other partnership looks out for each other at beacon?
I figure a partnership shouldn't need to have one member constantly have to prop up the other one because he idiotically decided to skip years of training.
And yet that’s what jaune does at the dance. Gives Pyrrha a prop up and a good laugh. And after the initial lessons, he did fine. Even made it to the 4v4 of the vytal festival
I said this same thing in a previous post some time ago.
Jaune's not 'taking screentime', that's a stupid argument made to try and debase what actual screentime he *does* get.
Just because the girls' screentime is used badly in comparison doesn't make it his fault all of a sudden. Notice, had the show *only* focused on Ruby during those times where it tried to do all the girls, I'm of the slightly positive opinion that it *could* have worked but they didn't want that. They kept trying to cram in everyone's issues like it was a checklist.
Jaune's seem better in comparison because it's *only* about him, one singular character who has flaws and has to work through them. We don't break from that fact to handle Ren's family drama, Pyrrha's nationalism, or Nora's exuberant plans, we just get Jaune at his worsts, his bests, and his normalcy.
That's the issue with trying to do so many characters at once, you split their time *during the time they have*. Nevermind all the other sides of this issue being the writers, their ideologies taking front seat to how a story would work, the FNDM, and etc.
People need to get over it, it was never about Jaune having screentime, they're just mad it was better than RWBY's even though that's less a fault of Jaune and just part of his archetype.
/u/Fate2690 I disagree with the very notion that Sir Maxwell301 and Fatmanfalling had in terms of the racism thing - their conclusion being "YASS KWEEN VIOLENCE IS GUD"! "ADAM DINDU NUFFIN HE'S A REVOLUTIONARY! TEAR THAT SHIT DOWN!"
I actually had ***no*** problems with Adam being a *Faunus Supremacist*, because Killmonger was one and I doubt Adam would be willing to show restraint after all that torture.
If there's one thing I think was done well with the White Fang, it was showing one half of their story, being how noble causes can eventually be derailed to violent extremism. Or how violent rhetoric, no matter how well-intentioned, always ends in a net negative.
We had respectable, noble uplifting spirits like David Dorn shot and killed, ridiculous laws in San Fran refusing to prosecute shoplifters (because it hurts the feefees of *muh minoritiez)*, Targets being burnt and looted (so companies decide to leave for good and have the cities end up poorer). In the UK, people are blatantly bitching about the English countryside being 99% white - even though whites are *indigenous in England,* ***their own country and land.*** All due to the "solutions" people proposed since Trayvon Martin exactly a decade ago, and Michael Brown in Ferguson. Not a single cooler head could get enough influence and calm the zeitgeist down so people could find proper solutions.
What was *lacking* was a *counterbalance* to all sides of the issue, namely, showing a sympathetic side to the Fang so that there's still an issue that requires a more moderate solution.
> Or how violent rhetoric, no matter how well-intentioned, always ends in a net negative.
Have you ever heard of the American Civil War which brought about the end of slavery in the US? That wasn't very peaceful.
/u/tatooine0 I forgot to add things like a proper context behind each scenario and whether or not people use violence as a form of protection and defense, versus a means of offense and bullying.
The Civil War and Civil Rights Marches are justified, because the Klan and slavery is morally wrong, and people are using violence to defend and protect people's right to live and be treated as equals. This is the defensive violence that should be used.
But I specifically cited things that are going on in the modern day, such as the CHAZ (where people died in public property), or the looting of neutral businesses and vague, general rhetoric of destroying everything without offering any path of redemption or forgiveness. And this rhetoric led to the Asian Uber driver that got carjacked and hurt by two girls (#StopAsianHate), or that Chicago kidnapping of that special needs kid who was tortured live on FB four years ago. Or the chaos that ensued after Rodney King in '92, forcing Koreans to arm themselves with guns just to protect themselves and their way of life. This is the offensive bullying kind of violence that taints the noble cause of advocating for equality.
This is what parallels the riots and the burning down of shops which are described in the pilot episode. The shop owners may be racist dicks (and I hate them for it), but now every other person in the surrounding area is going to consider leaving for fear of their own safety, or worse, taking matters into their own hands and arming up out of worry for their loved ones, or retaliation to avenge what's lost if they get pissed off enough. That's a loss of economic investment that will make people poorer and more miserable in the long run. That's a bunch of bystanders with soured opinions of the Faunus willing to take the reactionary route out of disgust, and a loss of potential supporters advocating for Faunus equality.
What's worse is that the peaceful protest was hijacked by a louder voice willing to go violent - The White Fang.
Not everyone who is neutral should be considered an enemy to what is right, or an enemy to the just cause of making things better for the underdogs. And they shouldn't be. A business that employs people in an area, minding their own beeswax doesn't deserve to be looted. People work there to pay their bills and put food on the table. People may barely be able to get a job. People may identify with their co-workers as a family while working there. Without that business, there's less opportunity for social mobility, and in turn more people headed towards destitution, and eventually adding to increased levels of violence and crime against everybody (especially assuming that Remnant's job markets as just as hard, if not harder to get in).
Even if they're douchebags, unless they've committed felonies, boycotting and voting with one's wallet will cause them to reconsider. Capitalism in its most basic form is unbiased to superficial demographics, and even large institutions can be brought down to their knees given enough vocal outrage.
This I believe, is one reason to strive towards the peaceful protest methods, even if Ghira's a fool in the way he implements them (of course Adam can kill in self-defense). It will take the power of love (like Daryl Davis, a black man, talking to Klansmen and convincing them to change), and the willingness to protect even if violence occurs.
Call me a colorblind naive little dipshit all you want for still holding onto the race-neutral colorblind ideal of equality, but before the New 10's, I recalled working, laughing and living with people from all walks of life and enjoying each other's company where people were happy to get along and not start trouble for everyone else. The first season of Magic School Bus was diverse, and it set a positive, diverse example of how to have every different kind of person get along, instead of pointing fingers at certain demographics and assigning blame to events they did not live under.
It is possible, but only if we continue to believe in it and hold not only ourselves, but the people around us to this standard so that we can set a good example for the various, diverse future generations to come.
Civil Rights leaders have always pointed out those who were neutral were enemies of the movement. MLK even mentioned the real problem in the 1950s and 1960s were the white moderates.
Dude, learn some history lol. Violent extreme revolutions are the only ones that actually ever work or make any kind of difference. No group of people or society has ever advanced in the world by turning the other cheek (which is constantly misinterpreted by people anyway) and moderation never works either. Just look at how slavery ended, how dictatorships get overthrown or how colonialism ended. None of that would have possible without spilling some blood, if you want to make an omelette you gotta crack some eggs lol.
And the problem people have with the direction of Adam's character isn't that he's a Faunus Supremacist (this was clear since the very beginning), but that the revolutionary elements of his character was thrown away by CRWBY in favor of turning him into a one-dimensional stalker ex-boyfriend out of nowhere smh.
A few comes to mind actually.
With Ironwood I don't see how he can handle 8 trained warriors (each with very effective abilities) on his own, without any backup on his side. In fact the entire issue of the fight started from the setup of it all in the first place, Ironwood is detaining a Winter Maiden yet had inadequate backup for the task. Had he brought with him mechs previously seen through the seen such as the one Torchwick used in VOL2 - the fight would have been more even and therefore more entertaining. But due to this, the fight was lacklustre.
I don't see Adam's death as murder, in fact I see it as self-defence against a deranged lunatic hellbent on killing anyone he targets and their loved ones. He wouldn't stop if was disarmed and left defeated, he would've kept coming to haunt Blake. He's no different than Michael Myers in his motive - stalk a particular prey and kill everyone they love before the final kill to make it that much sweeter. And if he was defeated one Halloween, he'd come back again and again and again. Just like Adam would.
Also I don't see RWBY Vol1-3 as the best thing in the world writing-wise, but because it's fun that I enjoy these volumes the most. I actually like the story arc with Nuckelavee and Ren/Nora, I'd say I enjoyed Vol4 even - though that may be due to me watching it on one sitting. Sure it's start of the trend of mostly lackluster fights to ok/good ones, but I enjoy the adventurous vibe I was getting. Like leaving Midgar, to explore Gaia while searching Sephiroth.
Lastly I can't say I hate most of the designs of characters Post Vol-3 either. I enjoyed many of them, including Ruby Vol4-6 and Ace-Ops. Ruby went further in the fantasy vibe which is my favourite genre, and the Ace-Ops kept a consistent theme in their uniforms while still conveying some personality in each of their designs.
A lot of the criticism Bumblebee, Blake and Yang got especially after Volume 6. I don't think it's well written but a lot of people used certain buzzwords to disguise homophobia, and Adam's character got dragged into that with a lot of incels over-hyping his potential to make up the "Adam's character got assassinated to pander to Bumblebee" narrative.
I disagree that anything involving Adam and the white fang was done well.
I don't agree that Jaune is a well written underdog character
Those aren’t criticisms?
For me it’s the people criticizing that Ruby should have saved Yang.
Like, I get she’s fast and can react quick, but at the end of the day she’s still a young fighter. Even when you become an expert at something that doesn’t mean you don’t mess up every now and then, especially in high stress/life-or-death situations. I don’t think it’s entirely unbelievable that she couldn’t react in time to do anything. I think there are problems with the show but I just feel this one is nitpicking.
“Ruby/Jaune or Neo should kill Cinder”
Maybe I’m being biased but why do so many people have a murder boner for Cinder? I understand that she deserves to pay for basically setting the world on fire but I can’t help but think killing her off would be a waste when there’s more that could be done with her character.
I want to see her character develop into something similar like Vegeta, not killed off because she’s irredeemable. There’s plenty of villains who have been labeled irredeemable and deserve to be killed off but effectively became a fan favourite because you could literally see their character develop.
I wanted to see that type of development with characters like Adam and Cinder. I’d give the writers a lot of respect if they managed to give Adam that kind of development also instead of killing him off for a ship.
>I want to see her character develop into something similar like Vegeta, not killed off because she’s irredeemable.
You wanna the difference between Vegeta and Cinder?
Vegeta never personally killed one of Goku's friends. He only got a chance cause Goku was willing to show mercy.
Cinder has killed several of Ruby and Jaune's, now. And they don't have anything to revive them.
That drastically reduces her chances of redemption.
There isn't anyone on the heroes side who wants Cinder to live.
> Vegeta never personally killed one of Goku's friends. He only got a chance cause Goku was willing to show mercy.
Not that it would have meant much if he did since they just used The Dragon Balls to resurrect them.
Tbf Vegeta is just as responsible as Nappa even though Vegeta didn’t directly kill all of Goku’s allies since Vegeta would’ve killed them anyways.
And again I’m not saying Cinder should become friends or allies with team RWBY, but I want to see Cinder go out of her way to develop as character similar to Vegeta where chooses stop being selfish for her desires and fight for someone else. I don’t like the idea of having Cinder killed off.
Nappa is the one who personally killed some of Goku's friends, so Goku has more reasons to be pissed with him. Vegeta may have spectated, but he never directly harmed then, so Goku has less reasons to be angry with him. His literal only kill on Earth at the time is Nappa.
Notice the difference? He didn't touch them, so it's less personal.
Cinder has directly killed Pyrrha and forced Jaune to kill Penny after mortally wounding her. She didn't watch someone else do it, she took her arrow/claws and actually directly landed killing blows to the protagonists friends.
To put it simply:
There's a ***SIGNIFICANT*** difference between *spectating* a murder scene and being the one who actually pulled the trigger.
Goku’s reason for letting Vegeta live wasn’t because he wasn’t personally involved in killing his friends compared to Nappa, he directly stated that he wanted to fight him again because Vegeta was the strongest person he ever fought, It was Krillin who wanted to kill Vegeta btw. Heck Goku spared Frieza who killed his best friend right in front of him and nearly killed Gohan. Goku rarely holds grudges in general since all he wants is a strong opponent.
My point isn’t that Cinder should seek redemption by having team RWBY forgive her for killing all their friends, that’s just bad character writing. Cinders redemption doesn’t have to be through the people she’s hurt but the people she could potentially save. Regardless I think it’s a waste for Cinder to be killed off but I can understand why a lot of people would disagree with me, she did kill Pyrrha and Penny and basically caused the calamity of V3.
>Heck Goku spared Frieza who killed his best friend right in front of him and nearly killed Gohan. Goku rarely holds grudges in general since all he wants is a strong opponent.
He spared him mostly out of cruel mercy, he was no longer worth the effort.
Through the ***MOMENT*** Frieza tried to blast him in the back, he fired back with clear intention to kill, even if he did look remorseful.
That remorse is kinda gone with Frieza's second death, because he went and destroyed Earth when he had the opportunity. Goku wasn't letting him do it again.
The only reason Frieza is walking free now is because he's gotten smart enough to not senselessly pick a fight with Goku again. Because if Goku let's him live, Vegeta certainly won't.
>Cinders redemption doesn’t have to be through the people she’s hurt but the people she could potentially save.
She'd need someone she'd WANT to save for that to be possible, and so far she's shown no actual care for anyone but herself. She's burned Watts to death and dropped Neo to the void after they helped her get so far. In terms of the latter, that's another dagger aimed at her back since Neo is NOT going to let that go.
>Regardless I think it’s a waste for Cinder to be killed off but I can understand why a lot of people would disagree with me, she did kill Pyrrha and Penny and basically caused the calamity of V3.
Not just the calamity of V3, but V8 as well. An entire continent was wiped off the map due to her interference. Atlas and Mantle are ***DESTROYED*** because of her.
There's also another difference between Vegeta and Cinder. When Vegeta was humbled, it kept progressing onwards because at the time, there were several people who could stand up to him if he acts up. And even then, it was Goku showing him mercy that planted those seeds in the first place, even if it was for selfish reasons.
Cinder was humbled several times then *CHOSE* to go further into evil. She has no reason to change for the better because she has no reason to *want* to, and there aren't a lot of people on the heroes side who can last an extended fight against her.
Her list of calamities keeps rising the longer she lives. Unlike Vegeta, she has **not** been given a strong reason to stop, and the ones that were presented to her, she brushed aside.
You can say that killing Cinder off would be a waste. I'm not even saying that redemption for her is outright impossible.
But she herself keeps destroying every chance she has at turning for a better path, this continuing to devalue any redemption story she might have. Because at this point, the amount of people willing to let her live to use that chance grows significantly fewer the longer she lives.
You are forgetting the fact that Vegeta throughout the Namek saga went out of his way to protect Gohan & Krillin from Freeza's forces (this was to further his own interests of course, but still) and Goku thanked him for it. Cinder has never performed any kind of good deeds throughout all of RWBY, not even for her own interest.
There was potential for Adam, Raven and even Salem to get some Vegeta-like like development for redemption, but no way in hell could you do that for Cinder. She is from day 1 and still now a one-dimensional psychopath with zero motives or interests other then "I want to be powerful". She's one of the few RWBY characters that never had much potential to be a great character since she sucked from the very beginning.