[US Release] Black Widow Release Megathread - July 9
By - MSSmods
Film is amazing. The plot is great, and humor is well-placed.
Florence Pugh was exceptional. Very excited to see more of her in Hawkeye.
plot felt kinda shallow but overall the movie was great..ik im gonna get downvoted :-)
Nah I agree. Villain should have been better given his connection to Natasha but he was pretty mustache twirly. Loved the opening scene and the third act was surprisingly really great. Middle part drug some for me. Overall a really fun movie.
He was basically a more perverted Pierce.
Or he was Brian Cox' s Stryker weapon x director to a tee. Even with disfigured child he is using for his own ends.
I feel like the parts of the movie that were about Natasha's family were really great, but the rest was kind of eh.
I haven’t seen the movie yet ( watching it atm ) but everyone’s opinion matters. Even if you get downvoted; who cares?? Lol.
I am currently at 18:36 timestamp. ;)
haha enjoy the movie :-)
Ya looking back weak plot and villain but the movie was carried by scar jo and Florence plus the rest of the supporting cast even including black widows private contractor friend who supplies her. The family subplot and them doing the widow program was enough to keep me enticed.
Side note the scene where black widow was getting her ass kicked at the end by all the widows from the program and the red lights shining through the room looked visually gorgeous and aesthetically very black widow esque lol.
Personally thought the movie was pretty bad in the sense that this supposed to be a movie in which we learn more about the character of black widow. What she went through in the red room, her childhood, how she became an assasin and then became an avenger. What led her to that. But the movie never really explores that. We basically know nothing new about her by the end. The movie just moves along and black widow is forced into this ride if that makes sense. Stuff happens and Black Widow kinda is there to move along with the plot. Found that very disappointing. The action is good tho
> We basically know nothing new about her by the end
Well besides the fact that she had a fake family for three years, her real mother was killed but she never knew that, and she killed a child to escape the Red Room, but thought that the Red Room was destroyed
Thank you for pointing this out, what a strange criticism of the movie lol
Yeah all his criticism was explained throughout the movie through a few different perspectives. Just can’t make some of these nerds happy…granted I thought the movie was pretty vanilla in its reveal of Taskmaster. Kind of took Nats biggest failure and flaw and forgave it because Disney.
Was it “supposed” to do that or did you just assume it would do that based on literally nothing the filmmakers ever implied?
That’s what I originally thought and hoped the movie was going to be about before learning it was going to take place after civil war.
I still thought they could explore that even if the movie was after civil war. But nah we know nothing new about the character which is sad more than anything since this is probably the last movie for the black widow we all know
Movie was underwhelming after the extra year wait.
It’s not bad by any means but it’s ok to be honest and say it was disappointing.
Natasha felt sidelined in her own movie, and with her being dead in the MCU it just made me feel like the stakes were low, and we should’ve got this movie a while ago.
I saw a review that said CA:TWS was a better Black Widow film and I agree.
I also loved it, felt like a spiritual successor to Winter Soldier.
And I wasnt disappointed with Taskmaster. Maybe expectations from rumors really would result to disappointments
That opening really had me hooked.
Florence Pugh was incredible.
I watched the movie for Natasha but ended up liking Yelena. Florence Pugh's performance was exceptional. Another great casting from Marvel
Speaking of casting - those kids. Nat’s facial expressions were on point and the little sister was clearly FP-esque before we even met the regular aged version.
Baby NAT is that resident Evil lady's child. Super awesome.
Edit; milla jovovich
She and Harbour were the highlights and really stole the show. Nat's family can easily carry a sequel.
I hope that Yelena gets her own movie in phase 5 or 6 cause she’s hilarious
Well, she's the new Black Widow. I assume she'll be a lead in the eventual Thunderbolts film.
I meant an actual Black Widow 2 sort of movie but yeah that makes sense as well.
I lost it when she did Nat's pose & was disgusted!
Agreed. Red Guardian was great but felt a little underused. Hope he tries to assemble Winter Guard with that Crimson Dynamo shoutout and that dude named Ursa in prison.
Such a poser!
We all laughed our asses off when she tried it herself.
I want to see Yelena in as many properties as reasonable.
Yelena Vs Daredevil incoming
I want to see how yelena and us agent would react to each other lol
Or Yelena and Kate. Black Widow and Hawkeye.
Natasha's infinity war outfit makes a lot more sense now, blonde hair and the vest with all those handy pockets.
I remember arguments over the vest where people refused to believe it would be Yelena's vest that was passed to Nat to wear. They said it would be two of kind or something, which is silly. Wardrobe is choice, and this was obviously done to create linkage to IW.
This movie was fucking great, really I don't have any complaints outside of Dreykov being really one-dimensional and flat, and Id still somehow put it in the mid-tier of MCU movies.
I think it's the third act. I really enjoyed how slow it was in the first two acts, and the third act just sped things up, but its still not a bad third act
Characters are great, Action is great, VFX are superb, A perfect amount of humor
EDIT: Oh yeah, I thought Taskmaster was really forgettable honestly. I didn't think they utilised his powerset in a way that made him stand out more. I think it's because literally all of his fight scenes were in the trailer, so you cant even go "Oh hey she did that one move that one person did in that one movie" because there's literally nothing new in the movie that wasn't in the trailers.
EDIT EDIT: Also, while I did appreciate Thunderbolt Ross' appearance, it was literally just fluff. I don't think this movie did anything to progress his character.
So Tldr: Villains are underwhelming, everything else is great
My feelings exactly. I do like how they kept Taskmaster alive though, and with US Agent and now Yelena being recruited it's not entirely unthinkable that they'll be back as some form of antihero.
People can say what they want about comic accuracy, 'another Mandarin' et etc, but I thought tying Natasha's arch nemesis back to a line from the first Avengers movie was really clever and totally in line with the more 'realistic' approach the MCU seems to be taking. Taskmaster was under utilised in the film and that's a valid complaint, but I have no issue with this new take on the character itself.
I can already see a Ghost, Bucky, Yelena, Zemo, Taskmaster, US Agent Thunderbolts-esque lineup.
Imagine them having to take on the full power of the Power Broker/Madame Hydra/Sharon Carter.
An antihero Taskmaster would be super badass too!
Bucky? Why does Bucky showing up in comment about Thunderbolts? He is Sam's partner and an Avenger. Besides they already have super soldier in Walker and Bucky after what they've done doesn't fit there.
How about Zemo, Yelena, Ghost, Taskmaster, US Agent and Abomination vs the Leader ?
That would be so cool.
> I can already see a Ghost, Bucky, Yelena, Zemo, Taskmaster, US Agent Thunderbolts-esque lineup.
*Justin Hammer has danced into the chat*
I doubt Antonia will continue being Taskmaster. Poor girl will probably suffer from PTSD.
I'd prefer if they introduced Tony Masters and have him be the MCU Taskmaster moving forward. In the comics he's one of the funniest villains, almost like a male version of the movie's Yelena but super over-confident and a bit of an asshole. He'd fit perfectly with the MCU.
With her being named Antonia, I feel like shes a gender bent Tony they completely flubbed.
Yeah, I thought to myself at the end that Taskmaster got X-Men Origins: Wolverine'd.
I think ross’ appearance set him for the thunderbolts cuz as natasha said,he looks like shit and will use something to keep him alive and will turn into red hulk
Given the sudden backlash with William Hurt's sexual misconduct allegations I doubt they'll keep him, they'll probably recast him.
There was a post here a while ago saying they'll do exactly that by making him Red Hulk. He'll be always a CG character and get someone new to do the VO.
Man that makes me so hyped for Thunderbolts!!!
Taskmaster is somehow even worse than Malekith and Karli Morgenthau.
They Wolverine Origins Deadpooled one of the most charismatic people in the entire Marvel Universe.
The Taskmaster reveal was very predictable and the character was definitely underused. The parts they were in had great choreography as expected, especially the Bucky callback.
It would have been nice to have seen a funeral for Natasha but the post credits scene was great. The revenge plot they’re setting up will definitely be interesting (Probably Thunderbolts or Hawkeye).
I love the use of the jacket, it makes IW even better.
Red Guardian and Yelena were probably the standout characters.
It very much felt like a return to phase 1 style storylines. It doesn’t push boundaries in the way that Loki or WandaVision has in recent history, but it’s a fun movie nonetheless.
What Bucky callback?
The knife drop
The shittiest feature IMO other than the 2 villains was the random dude giving Natasha literally everything, safe space, guns equipment, a fucking quinjet. Surprised he didn't give her the full infinity gauntlet.
And they don't even touch on who he is, I don't even remember them mentioning his name, she just shows up and tells him to get out of her bed.
At the end I sat back during the credits and wondered, "how the hell did some blackmarket shlub get his hands on a freaking quinjet?" It's ludicrous.
Yea his character felt like pointless plot filler with no backstory whatsoever. Random Black Widow companion with Avengers/shield level connections who just pops in an out of nowhere with no background info, no real connections with anyone other than here's your gear, you're welcome. Didn't even hear his name. I thought they might actually give him a proper story/romantic connection to Natasha or something but he literally came and went, and then finds a random quinjet that apparently even Steve Rodgers couldn't acquire....was hoping we would have seen Cap in the jet but she says she is off to free people from jail, thus creating more plot holes as well leading to her finding Cap after he bails out the guys at the end of Civil War.
Worse, Cap and Bucky already had a quinjet at the end of CW. So now the renegade Avengers had *two* quinjets?
Agreed. Also HOW THE FUCK DID SHE ESCAPE ROSS AT THE END???
As that scene ended, I figured she was going to be arrested and sent to the raft, only to be resued by Cap along with the others. But nope.
It's such a minor detail, but it irks me hahaha
EDIT: Also from my girlfriend "where did she get the hair dye???"
>EDIT: Also from my girlfriend "where did she get the hair dye???"
she literally picked a box up at that corner store thing after they were attacked at the Budapest safe house
yous are so dramatic lmao
He's the *Master* of impossible *Tasks*.
It was ok not the best or worst MCU movie. The villains in my opinion were kinda bad and the third act was a mess. Other then that Florence Pugh and David Harbour were great and the post credit scene got me more excited for the Hawkeye show.
Happy Melina and Red Guardian survived because I would love to see them again!
I wonder what the future has for Taskmaster!
According to Spidey Forever (I know people have mixed opinions on him) she will return. He now has his own sub where he puts all his BS into one thread and posts genuine scoops
I mean she has to. There’s literally no reason you get Olga Kurylenko for like 2 minutes of screentime and one line
Especially considering that, despite being a fantastic actor, she's in her 40s and 5 years older than ScarJo, despite ostensibly playing a character who would be in her early 20s at most. If the entire purpose of the casting had just been "Oh look, it's the little girl from earlier!" then she would have been a horrible choice, so they obviously have bigger plans.
Do you have a link to this?
My guess is either Antonia takes a while to adjust now she's not brainwashed and sets out either for revenger or to make up for what she's done, maybe appearing in Thunderbolts. Or, the suit is left behind and at some point in a future post credits scene someone acquires it (whether Tony Masters or someone else).
She still has her abilities. Brainwashing is removed but she still has the microchip and her gears.
This movie featured one of the worst lines i’ve ever heard. paraphrasing a little i’m sure, but:
“I did it using the only resource the world has too much of….. GIRLS!”
my whole theater groaned. you can have a female empowering movie without the villain straight up saying ‘girls suck, I hate them!’
edit: stop acting like i’m personally attacking all of you. i’m not a fan of a LINE in a movie. i’m criticizing screenwriting here, not feminism.
"My whole theatre groaned" is "And everybody clapped" energy.
The whole background of the widows and the red room is that they're victims of child trafficking, a huge real world problem where the majority of trafficked humans are women and girls. This is a real mindset that a lot of people in the world have, full countries and cultures value women and girls far lower to the point where they abandon their own children if they're girls.
So sure the line in a vacuum may seem cheesy. But coming from a villain who clearly has a large human trafficking ring focused on young girls to mind control them and use them for his own agenda. It's pretty clear that's going to be his opinion. The villain didn't say "girls suck, I hate them" he's a predatory vile human trafficker who manipulates and controls girls he traficks from as young as 4 years old (Yelena's age in the first act).
This. I think using the word 'Girls' is the most explicit and most evil way to put it tbh. The word girl is always seen as young, wide-eyed, innocent. For him to speak of them as if they're assets to him is revolting and gives credence to why he should be taken down.
Don't sleep on the fact that, while Ray Winstone is a phenomenal actor in the right setting...this wasn't it.
He wasn't menacing. He wasn't intimidating. He couldn't even manage a serviceable Russian accent. Of all the things the MCU has asked me to believe/accept, "Ray Winstone as a Russian general" may have been a bridge too far.
I feel like the character of Drakov would've been better filled with *literally any Eastern European actor*.
seemed worth mentioning that people had a bad reaction to it because i’ve never actually experienced that in the theater.
I get everything you’re saying, but the line didn’t land. I get the idea of it, Winstone is a great actor, but it needed a rewrite.
I agree with the fact the scene and third act couldve been handled differently.
I thought the pheromone thing was wack and a terrible plot device used for Dreykov to unlock his computer and show Natasha everything only for Natasha to "sever the nerve" and stopping the pheromone by headbutting the table. I don't understand why they didn't just have a fight between Natasha and Taskmaster while Yelena, Alexei and Melina take down the Red Room. Taskmaster and Alexei didn't need to fight, there could've been a team up of Alexei and Yelena to fight off the widows while Melina finds a way to get the chemical into the vents or something and free the widows while they're fighting.
I enjoyed the first 2 acts but definitely thought the 3rd was all over the place.
I thought it was a great call back to the Avengers where she did the same manipulation with Loki to learn he was planning to unleash the Hulk.
That's not what Dreykov's line meant. And this so-called "whole theatre groaning" also sounds exaggerated.
As a girl from a third world country, that line made a lot of sense to me. I actually wish we got a deeper exploration of why exactly he chose orphaned girls . Then again, its PG 13 movie. It would be too dark for that.
That’s not what that line meant? It was about how women are discarded by society and Dreykov noticed that and took advantage of it to build the Black Widow program.
I just don't get why you think such a line felt in any way forced for the "women empowering" narrative. It's literally the bad guy speaking his mind, its the evil thing he is doing in this movie: using little girls as a resource and brainwash them. He doesn't respect them, he sees them as tools.
As someone who doesn't enjoy when some statement shit is on the nose forced (like the female team up scene in Endgame), the movie never appeared to be pushing any "men suck girls rule" type of narrative aside from just showing two women as the hero leads.
I interpreted this as a simple comment from a villain whose entire life has been centered around trafficking girls and killing or psychologically torturing them. They don't mean anything to him. And in the larger scheme of things, it contrasts him with Natasha. Natasha regrets sacrificing one girl to kill Dreykov. She lets Taskmaster escape the cell, knowing that Taskmaster will just try to kill her again. It's juxtaposition, but even if it was Marvel being woke, I'd take that line over all the female characters crowding around Captain Marvel in Endgame any day
Haha way to miss the point
Y’all are being so annoying about this, my theater did the same exact thing. It was just a bad line, not a big deal
Everyone got the point of the line, it was just a horribly written line.
I got the point, it was just written poorly. another writing pass on that line and it would have fit with the rest of the movie, but the way it played out was heavy handed is all
Hawkeye is going to be INSANE. Clint, Kate and Yelena! Glad that it’s coming very soon!
Florence Pugh vs Hailee Steinfeld? Im UP!
Hey , when it's coming ? I'm very excited !!
Should be in the Fall so I would say September-December. Sometime around there.
Filming wrapped on April 21st. I’d say maybe late October to Early December. If it’s sooner than that, we’ll definitely hear about it after Loki finishes or during/after What If…?.
"your ledger is gushing red" made me immediatly think of Avengers1 loki which made me think of the tv show Loki and where he is now which made me realise how big the mcu really is
And it's getting bigger, day by day.
BW is far better than Captain Marvel, which was the most heavy-handed MCU film. CM was one of those films you wanted to like, but it just sucked.
Setting Captain Marvel in the 90s was pointless. I would've liked the film far better if it was set in present day (before or after Endgame), and Carol gets her powers present day. Introducing a new character, but setting that character in the far past to explain why that character doesn't show up a lot seems like lazy writing.
I didn't even put a lot of focus on that there were only 3? 4? Essential male characters in the film. Loving these diverse casts. Can't wait for Shang-Chi now!
The train station scene where Nat comments on his health seems to be planting the seeds for Red Hulk.
But at the same time, his part feels like it's been cut down, so I'm wondering if there's something to the suggestion that Marvel is backing off Hurt because of those resurfaced allegations.
Val is recruiting a team not him. Is she the replacement?
I think there is clearly potential for a Thunderbolts film/series with Red Hulk, Yelena, possibly Red Guardian since he hates Captain America, U.S. Agent, Sharon, Zemo and possibly a few others like task master or Justin hammer who will have a role in Armor Wars series.
I don't think they would have Valentina appear in multiple scenes looking like an evil Nick Fury type for no reason, looks like she's putting a team together. And clearly the Incredible Hulk, end of Civil War, Infinity War hologram scene and now Black Widow has been slowly building up Ross as red hulk/ a dude who hates all things heros/Avengers, would be surprised if it doesn't happen.
I didn’t get the feeling that Alexei hated captain America, I thought he respected him and bragged about fighting the greatest soldier ever.
In the movie, he's talking about Cap, not as a mortal enemy but as a contemporary. I believe he uses those exact words.
Edit: Yeah, just watched it again. He says "...not so much a nemesis, more like a contemporary. A coequal with mutual respect."
Something to that effect. I think he probably looks up to him. Don't know what the guy above you was saying when he said Red hated Cap.
I don't think he hated captain america, it was more like how athletes can respect their competition and still want to beat them. I got a "that's cute, the americans tried to make their own version of me" vibe
Also regarding Ross; This dude really needs to stop going and leading all of his ops personally. He's a freaking three-star general not to mention a former *Secretary of State* but he's just fucking shunting around in a humvee out in the Russian boonies on his way to arrest a renegade assassin with the boys.
I hope we get a little more of Red Guardian in the future. Definitely gave me MCU Drax vibes as a silly loveable lug.
Movie was good. Would've loved to have seen it five or six years ago when the character wasn't dead, the timeline for it being between Civil War and Infinity War was perfect for a BW movie, but better late than never. And I'm glad Yelena/Florence nailed her role, can't wait to see more of her stuff.
Black widow is reminder how good action sequence and cinematography can be in MCU compared to D+ shows. So we can expect good amount of action from Sam as Cap and probably Bucky in Cap 4 movie since the overall fight choreography in TFAWS felt off.
I think the choreography was good, but its impact was cut of by a bit faster editing and close ups.
My only complain with this movie, other than the villain being meh, is that it felt just like a regular Black Widow movie. I was expecting a sendoff for the character, something that felt like "yes this is her final movie appearance" but instead it felt like "Black Widow 1/2". It's a movie that should've come out in phase 2 or after Civil War.
Well the way this film will play in the timeline, it does come after Civil War. I personally appreciate Marvel trusts us enough that they can release current films that go back and fill gaps in the timeline without confusion. Perks of having a fully fleshed out universe. That being said I get that some people won’t appreciate that as much. GOTG2 had a similar problem so I get it.
See I actually really like that. Because I'm a chronological order guy and this will slot very nicely into the timeline without any weird tonal shifts
I hadn't thougth about it that way... but you are right. It'll be a great movie for a chronological order rewatch.
I enjoyed the opening credits so much, never experienced such a great music-visual collaboration. 10/10
EDIT: **With the lights out, it's less dangerous**
Agreed I thought it was so badass.
The movie was fine, but definitely lower end MCU in my opinion. Not important, but it definitely should have come out in 2017, but fuck Ike Perlmutter.
The quiet character moments were the best parts and showed off the directing a lot more than the action scenes. Speaking of which, I found the action to be very mediocre, which is a shame because I was really looking forward to it and Taskmaster should make for interesting fight scenes. I may have missed some, but I’m pretty sure that most of Taskmaster’s coolest moves were cut from her fight with Red Guardian.
I found the worst aspect of the movie to be the villains. Taskmaster was a nothing villain that has absolutely nothing in common with the comic book counterpart. Also, there was very little mimicry. I could definitely see them introducing a new, more comic accurate version in the future. Additionally, Dreykov is just a generic Russian bad guy. I don’t understand why they felt the need to take one line of dialogue from Avengers and use it as the villain for this movie, I with they had went with a comic book character so at least I could have an “oh, it’s ____” moment before being disappointed.
I also don’t like the implications of Dreykov’s daughter surviving for Black Widow’s character. It definitely feels like a move to make Black Widow less of a morally gray character, which makes her less interesting, in my opinion.
To end with some positives, David Harbour and Florence Pugh were fantastic and stole every scene. I also thought the post credit scene sets up something very interesting.
EDIT: A minor thing that I just remembered that really took me out of the movie was the choreography when Yelena and Natasha were fighting. They take turns picking each other up and throwing each other around, which is just such a bizarre way for them to fight. Someone with the frame and build of Florence Pugh should rely on quick hits and the flippy leg moves that Black Widow typically uses.
Along with that, there are parts where Widows just stand in the streets shooting big guns, when I got the vibe that they were more infiltrator/spy/assassin types. I figured they’d kill you and you’d never know they’re there. Like I said, this is a fairly minor complaint, but definitely distracting for me
EDIT 2: This comment is already obnoxiously long, but since I added more that I didn’t like, I just wanted to add that I really liked the opening credits and the twists that the ending took, just in regards to Natasha confronting Dreykov. Also, I thought most of the costumes were great. I even thought Taskmaster’s was fine.
Looking at it through the lens of it being a spy movie set in the MCU with even Natasha watching James Bond in the film, I really enjoyed a lot of the action/runaway sequences and even the villains.
I do wish they put more emphasis on Taskmaster's mimicry and do more with the character. She was a good villain choice though since Natasha was in a way having to fight her family (the avengers) throughout the film through her fighting styles. I think they could have executed her better.
Draykov I liked or should I say hated. Being the invisible head leader of child trafficking and the one line I can't exactly remember... "Now leave me alone to play with my new toy." And the pheromone thing... I couldn't wait for him to die and get what he deserved. He felt filthy and pure evil.
The sky base definitely gave me James Bond vibes. I enjoyed watching the action, but it never packed a real punch for me. That being said, my favorite action scene was probably the prison escape.
Some of the action scenes were definitely cut weird. Notably the Red Guardian vs Taskmaster fight. And the prison escape had me on the edge of my seat. I loved the scenery
I’d like you all to try and put yourself in my fiancée’s mindset, having completely forgotten that Nat died in Endgame, and imagine the disorientating whiplash she felt when that post-credits scene rolled around.
that was the same for my dad. he kept asking me about things. he was saying "But Tony died?" and "But Steve died?" over and over. i had to tell him that this took place in 2016 in the first 10 mins. and he only remembered that Nat died in that post credits scene.
Deadpool in X-Men Origins level fuck up on Taskmaster in this movie
Seriously… they turned a snarky, mimic assassin into a mute, drone-like generic villain.
It's so fucking embarrassing.
It's weird how structurally similar this film is to Captain Marvel.
* CM holds the MCU record for most individual action beats, with eight. Widow actually ties that film.
* Both films' action beats are incredibly front loaded, with five in Act One alone. Typically there's only 1-2. Their first acts are each structured like an entire movie.
* Both films' Act Two has the two main characters on a buddy road trip, picking up two more along the way.
* Both quartets are lured to a sky fortress, and ultimately captured by the villain.
* Both use the hero's mysterious (yet banal) parentage and upbringing as a hook to continue the story.
I'm the weird CM fan, I've revisited it more than most Phase 3 films, but Widow is better in almost every aspect. Yet it's odd how similar their plot structures are.
Both of its written by jac shaeffer, who also wrote wandavision, which had a lack of action, which was honestly refreshing, i think shes do well with tv, with a longer run time
Jac Schaeffer should not be allowed to write villains in all honesty. Has yet to write a single compelling villain.
Rest of the movie is great, but Taskmaster was so meh, and Dreykov is probably bottom 5 of MCU villains.
The fact that she said in an interview that she didn’t read the comics Marvel sent her to get a better understanding of the characters is so frustrating
That's just incompetent, really. Like you're hired to bring this character to life and you can't even make the effort to find out who they are properly.
She shouldn’t write for the MCU I feel. I don’t think the MCU has any outright bad scripts, but I feel like every one with her on it has a lot of flaws.
So is Red Guardian a super soldier? Because it seemed like he could jump higher and was stronger than normal. Plus he held his own against taskmaster.
I'm curious about why, if the soviets had their own super soldier serium, why they also seem to have only gotten to use it once.
I think he just got super-strength, not coordination, agility or photographic memory like Cap. Thought it was interesting thinking about Nat's romantic feelings for Banner/Hulk - the massive strength of her fake dad, the super-smarts of her fake mum.
I'd say he was somewhat agile
It's possible they used a derivative of the serum Bucky got in 91 to make more Winter Soldiers; although that was only 10 days before the fall of the Soviet union.
I think someone says, "C'mon, super soldier" when he's escaping the prison
The MCU appears to have taken some liberties with Red Guardian's various iterations. The original RG was a super soldier, but the character used in the movie is name Alexei Shostakov, the 2nd RG (who was in the comics BW's husband before she became a super spy...). Shostakov was NOT a super soldier, unlike his predecessor, who fought alongside Cap and Namor in WWII (before fighting against them...)
Regardless, it's clear that RG in the MCU has some enhancements with respect to strength and, likely when he was in fighting trim, agility. He's also clearly a skilled (though well out of practice) hand-to-hand fighter and it's probable that he was a match, physically, for WS, BP and/or Cap when in his prime.
My guess - and it's a guess - is that the Soviets created a variant of the super soldier serum which they used on Alexei in the late 70s or early 80s (before sending him to Ohio) but decided to abandon it's use when the real stuff became available in 1991.
Yeah completely, in the beginning of the movie he lifts a car with ease
Edit : Throws it
"You want me to chase him down and un-steal it?" I lost my mind. Florence Pugh is a star and is hopefully an MCU staple for the foreseeable future.
I just think it’s crazy that the last time there was an MCU movie releasing in theaters, I was freshly 17. Now I’m almost 20.
Hope we can put this mess all behind us sometime soon, look into the future with a steady stream of films, and never take that theater experience for granted again.
If you had just turned 17 when FFH released, how are you now nearly 20?
Giant flying Russian base went down because of ONE grenade lol
that 3rd act set piece really bothered me on a lot of levels.
one being Melina's "I've taken out one engine so we're going to have a controlled crash" line...which turned out to be massively understatement.
I looked at the Red Room as sort of the answer to a Helicarrier, only lower rent. I mean...it manufactures cloud cover?
I think the "controlled crash" line was meant to be a joke.
Honestly don't see the hate for Taskmaster. I wish they had more fight scenes I guess, but what we got was still pretty great. Definitely not "The biggest waste of a character ever" like I've seen people claim
Update: you're all trying to justify your reasons to me, I don't care. The movie was fun, the character was fun, I'm sorry you didn't love it, but I did.
I personally didn't like her because the comics Taskmaster is a way better character. Charismatic, wisecrack, kinda of an asshole, etc. Antonia had no personality, she was basically a Terminator.
They might as well have [made her this character.](https://i.imgur.com/RVpLC6q.jpg)
My only Tasky complaints were the kinda lame mask and Taskmaster not being the mouthy smartass from the comics. But I loved how they portrayed the fighting style mimicry.
Most people, myself included, that are fans of the comic character will dislike the movie portrayal
They could have made her an original character. There really was no reason to use Taskmaster. It's not like he's a big Black Widow villain or anything so attaching his name to the movie didn't mean anything other than "you'll see cool copycat fighting".
It was just nothing like the comics. They should have just did a whole different character in place. Taskmaster has tons of personality in the comics. Its not like the Mandarin where I can see Marvel wanting to rebrand a typical Eastern stereotype.
Tasky in this movie is just a trained killer. The only thing they got right was the photographic reflexes (not called that, by the way) and they even dropped the ball on that.
I really don't know, I wasn't a fan of this movie. I really wanted to like it but imo it fell a bit flat for me. Let me talk about the good and then the bad for me.
* Cast was awesome, Harbor and Pugh were standouts and I am super excited to see where they appear next especially with Pugh in Hawkeye. Loved the chemistry with everyone with Natasha and her family.
* Visual style seems to be way more distinct and I am really happy in the recent years the Marvel Studios has been trying to make each project feel more different from one another.
* Very happy Black Widow got her own film, obligatory fuck Perlmutter.
* Super disappointed with Taskmaster, they gave her an interesting backstory and I love the terrifying presence she had on screen. But why get a good actress without her saying lines once? Also was weird it felt like we barely got any scenes with her.
* Editing felt extremely off at some points, especially with the action scenes which seem very to be well choregraphed. It was a bit of a downer when I felt like it was hard to tell what was going on because the shaky cam and it was cutting every 5 seconds.
* Not sure but the pacing of the movie felt off? Like I wanted to see more of the chemistry between the entire family and then boom we are already in the third act like 10 minutes after Natasha and co. reunite with their mom.
* The montage in the intro of the movie felt a bit long and I was kinda hoping to see more substantial flashbacks regarding the Red Room and Natasha with Dreykov but the montage just didn't do it for me.
* Dreykov himself felt pretty underwhelming as a villain and I was hoping to see more with him and his relationship with the Widows.
Overall imo the movie was a 6/10 and it was great to be watching movies in a theater again. I think imo the cast and the direction in some parts carried this movie but the writing could have been better.
I get the complaints, but I really enjoyed the hell out of this movie. The casting, acting, character work and dialogue were all among the MCU’s best and the action was phenomenal. Even if the plot still ended up being “hunt McGuffin, drop big thing from the sky,” I thought they crushed it. Can’t wait to see what the future holds for all of the characters, especially Yelena, Alexei and (perhaps weirdly) Mason.
Biggest disappointment for me was Taskmaster, but that’s just because I’m a big fan of the comics version. I thought the twist actually made a lot of sense and was handled pretty well for the movie.
Edit: Was also surprised at how genuinely hilarious this movie was without being “too jokey.” Also extremely emotional in ways I wasn’t expecting.
I'm sorta glad that things changed and we saw Val in TFATWS first as opposed to this. I felt it worked better. We already knew a little bit about her. Whereas if this was her first appearance as originally planned, I feel like she would have just felt like a random character and fallen flat.
i feel like they possibly reshot the scenes or else as you said her first appearance in this film would feel very odd
Critics were completely wrong. This was one of my favorites
Ray Winstone’s Russian accent was fucking abysmal. Like, I know he can’t do anything other than cockney but jeez!
Film was amazing. First two acts were like a typical spy slow burner and then BANG! The third act was insane!
I’m 50/50 on Taskmaster’s character. I’m not as knowledgeable about or as in love with Anthony Masters as some on the sub are, so it wasn’t the worst direction to take for me but even just knowing who Taskmaster SHOULD be irked me when I saw the character onscreen.
I hope we see more of David Harbour’s Red Guardian in the future. He was brilliant and so funny! As a dad who’s also made mistakes in my life (nowhere near as serious as Alexei’s though), he was brilliantly relatable in his moments of trying to make up to the girls.
Yelena was excellent and was the the epitome of a little sister character. Pugh made her feel real and I can’t wait to see her in the future.
For Natasha’s final appearance, I’d say it was a pretty nailed on swan song for the character.
Did anyone hear Red Guardian calling that giant Russian Ursa? Was that a call back to that giant bear named Ursa in the comics? I think he even called him big bear after he broke his arm.
Was confused that why Marvel put Olga Kurylenko's name in the opening credits after they went all that distance to hide it?
Decent movie but man Taskmaster was completely wasted. What a horrible misuse of the character. And Dreykov was even worse as a villain. This movie probably beat The Dark World when it comes to shitty villains.
i am going to be downvoted to hell but that was not good. Florence Pugh was perfect. acting was mostly good. Action is top notch. Story and dialog were the week points. Taskmaster is not even in the move for 10 mins it seemed.
I honestly thought Captain Marvel is better than this. will rewatch it tomorrow and see if that changes things.
I really liked it! I only watched the first two trailers so I wasn’t exhausted by the marketing. Way better than people on this sub we’re acting liking it was going to be
Florence Pugh was great in this movie, Honestly this movie was fun not my favorite marvel flick but definitely not anything that was super bad like thor 2 imo
If you told me Ray Winstone was going to beat up Scarlet Johansson in a movie a couple years ago I would of thought you were crazy.
Wasnt a fan. Taskmaster, the mind control, pacing, the quick cut action scenes, Natasha being invincible, the family relationships and the majority of the red room sequence didn’t work for me. Loved yelena and Alexei tho. Excited to see more of them
It's a good movie. Not the best Marvel movie, certainly not the worst. Oddly enough, I felt like ScarJo was the weakest element of it. Yelena was fantastic (Florence Pugh's accent is what I wanted for Natasha from the start), Alexei was amazing (very Drax-like) and I need him and Captain America to fight at some point (maybe in a *What If...*? episode?), and Dreykov... wow, he gave me serious Harvey Weinstein vibes.
Another weak element was Taskmaster, unfortunately. I like the idea behind the character, but not really the execution. It's a big, comic book character, reduced here to a few pop-up scenes.
Also, interested to see if Yelena continues to work for Valentina after *Hawkeye*.
Overall, I'm gonna say 8/10.
That was actually really great. What an awesome send off for Black Widow. Can’t wait to see more of the Red Guardian, he was superb!
I really liked the film.
Anyone else saw a possible Red Hulk tease? Ross’ heart isn’t in a good condition (they mention that he’s on his third bypass), so maybe in She-Hulk he injects something in order to “get better” and it goes terribly wrong.
Dreykov the cockney russian mate
Man, I definitely feel like they should have just dropped this on Disney+.
Red Guardian is fun and Yelena is cool, but the rest of the movie feels pretty... bland. Taskmaster was horribly executed and an even worse adaptation, and Dreykov might be the worst villain in the MCU (yes, including Malekith).
The opening scene and the opening credits were by far the best part.
was not expecting opening credits in the mcu but they were amazing and scary
The “sky fall” scene was as cool as I expected it. Great vfx all around. Though I did think Natasha landing so safely was a little too convenient
She definitely had plot armor in this film. I loved the score with the choir. Wish they used the soundtrack in the trailer though. That was a disappointment for me
The film was great and it reminded me of the Phase 1 movies. Although how they did Taskmaster was underwhelming, it's still forgiveable for me. Also contrary to some reviews, I never felt like ScarJo/Natasha was sidelined in the movie. She still remained to be the star of the film.
So why didn't Nat just go with Yelena and the widows at the end, she on the run... But since she did stay, why was she free'd...
I thought the implication was that she had to lead off Ross, and that despite the motorcade he presented absolutely no threat to her, so she easily escaped.
Nat says in the movie something like
"If this family can come back together, maybe's there's hope for my other one."
She wants to go help the Avengers. This is obviously her motivation because her black market person delivers her a quinnjet (lol) and she says she's gonna go help Cap.
I feel like a lot of people on the sub didn't watch the same movie what the hell haha
Because it's a prequel and they wrote Infinity War like 6 years ago, so they couldn't make her go with them when we knew she was with Steve and Sam
The one thing that nags about Task is Kurylekno's age (41) is all wrong. The character would be early 20s at most?
With the burn makeup I guess they figured it wasn't noticeable, and no one would question it.
I didnt knew she was 41, so it works
So we’re just gonna act like that wasn’t Harvey Weinstein?
Yelena is AMAZING. But I'm so sad they fucked up Taskmaster. Also Dreykov is meh
I did not enjoy the film. I did not have a lot of expectations but even then the whole thing just felt underwhelming. The ending was still nice but I wish they kind of honoured Natasha more, she deserved better. Even the post credit scene that could have been way more emotional ( I wanted it to be) switched its vibe. Was hoping for it to be fun though but idk just didn't like it, the film is very forgettable
The issue of child trafficking that was being addressed could have been more impactful and overall I felt like Natasha deserved a better send off.
That Smells Like Teen Spirit cover was fucking painful, I can't believe they played the entire song. Felt like a Zack Snyder movie
HOW DID SHE GET AWAY FROM ROSS AT THE END?
As a fan of taskmaster when I was growing up I was definitely let down by the portrayal. Knowing nats outcome really took any stakes away from me. Movies ok. Nothing bad nothing great. Just middle of the road marvel to me.
The movie’s two antagonists are a one-dimensional 80s/90s bad guy and a traumatized young woman whose life was ruined by an explosion.
Where have I seen that before? Oh yeah, Ant-Man and the Wasp.
I will probably get a lot of downvotes but I think this film sucked. The Taskmaster was completely wasted. The supposed villain in this film barely has any screen time and the overall plot is so cliche. I love Scarlett Johansson but she couldn't carry this film. Florence Pugh gave an amazing performance though.
I’m not sure why most people on this thread ain’t appreciating david harbour in this movie
Hopefully red guardian makes a return in a movie or tv show!
I really wanna talk about the cinematography and lighting coz holy crap! Watched all of Cate Shortland's films in prep for this (superbly talented filmmaker) and I am so so glad they let her distinct visual style shine through here. One of the best looking MCU movies no doubt.
Also I rarely say this for a lot of the MCU stuff but I'm looking forward to rewatching it a second time around. I thought it was really fun and most of all, genuinely different for the MCU.
Easily the 3rd worst marvel movie
I came to a similar conclusion.
Liked it better than Thor 2, GotG 2, Antman & Wasp, Captain Marvel.
About the same level of Age of Ultron and Iron Man 2 for me.
How I wish this movie released after infinity war
ok that one's on me, i meant after infinity war and before endgame, replacing captain marvel
Movie was awesome for one reason. Writers weren’t afraid to make Natasha look vulnerable, unlike Captain Marvel. Where they were scared shitless to make Brie Larson look bad.
I’m just gonna say it: I LIKED Olga Kurylenko as Taskmaster. I thought the twist was great and her face acting was off the charts.