Increasing the yardage to ten essentially guarantees a first down most of the time anyway.
I think they need to evaluate allowed contact within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. DBs can't do anything anymore
It wasn't contact that was the problem, the DB grabbed a handful of jersey. The first 4 replays showed the action from the end zone, you couldn't see the grab. They had an angle from the QBs perspective, you can clearly see the jersey grab.
Are you proposing legalizing grabbing the jersey to slow the receiver up?
No, a jersey grab is the first thing they look for. It was a flag.
I am just saying they make so many rules on what defenses can't do that it makes it very difficult to play defense.
I think they should evaluate that.
I think its because getting away with penalties is part of the game, and it benefits the offense more. The refs can only keep track of so much ~~even though the nfl could easily afford an army of sky refs so that every player had 3 guys watching him~~, and there's a lot of value to be gained from small holds. You can get away with it for a while, but when the ball gets thrown your way, you have every set of eyes on you.
It gets more confusing when refs start to let things go to just "let them play'. It sets a trap that you arguably can't even complain about. Do you want to give up the 3 holds you got away with? The real problem here is it allows the rules to be enforced unevenly. fuck "letting them play". hire a shitton of dudes and make things more predictable for the players.
It's fine. It's the consistency of officiating that needs to be looked at. You can't just let things go all game then throw the flag in the 4th quarter.
agreed with this - I think I remember 1 other defensive holding penalty during the game. I don't understand why they called it then when they seemed to have been 'letting them play' all game.
I'm fine with him throwing the flag because he thinks it's a penalty, which is probably was. But they should have huddled up and realized they weren't calling anything the whole game to make a group decision.
The whole point of officiating is to make it a level playing field so a team can't cheat to win. There are tons of calls that simply come to judgement on an event that happened in the blink of an eye.
It would be nice if the outcome of the penalty was taken into consideration a little more than it is. I get it is supposed to be more black and white than that, it either is or isn't a penalty. But, while it was technically a hold, it wasn't enough to hold back someone like an athlete and it was a shit throw. Couple that with the fact the penalty all but seals the game, you shouldn't make that call.
Hello DJ Khaled. I have no idea how you read what I said and your takeaway was:
>So let the DB mug the receiver, but don't call a penalty. Is that your solution?
My solution is, given that it wasn't really that egregious and that it basically decides the game maybe keep the flag tucked away for one more play. Especially when you have been letting them play fairly aggressive for the last 49 minutes of football.
DB's are going to realize the flag is tucked away and progressively ratchet up the mugging until the flag gets thrown, that's how it works. Players always push the boundaries.
Tugging of the jersey to delay the receiver getting into the route is a very effective measure if the referee lets you get away with ie.
THIS!
All game the flags were pretty well tucked away (a good thing). Now, with less a minute they throw that one.
Ticky Tack call, with no time for Philly to recover.
The problem with penalties like offensive holding and defensive holding is that they occur on every play, which makes it too easy for the refs to call or not call at critical moments to help sway the game a particular way. If you're not calling it all game, it lulls both teams into a false sense of what's allowed and then bam - call it when it matters most to one of the teams. With all the money on the line and the NFL in bed with Fan Duel and all that shit, if you don't think the refs have their thumbs on the scale to influence the outcomes then you're not paying attention.
Agreed, it's kind of insane how a defensive holding can instantly "end" a game, that otherwise is close.
Unrelated but I also think they need to get rid of the whole "victory formation" nonsense. I don't know of another sport where a close game can be "all but over" with 2 minutes left. It makes games so anti climatic and boring at the end - especially when a critical penatalty is called. Have just a one minute warning, and under a minute left in the half game clock should only run while play is active.
I always liked the Arena Football League solution of the offense having to gain yards to keep the clock running in the final minute. Gave the defense a fighting chance and the offense couldn't take the easy way out.
1pt lead with 2min left in NBA: super tense game down to the wire
1run lead in the 9th in MLB: super tense game, every AB matters
1goal lead with 2min left in NHL: Offense going all out to try and score
1pt lead in with 2min left in NFL: Game over, we're done here folks
From the corner himself post game presser….
‘It was a holding,” Bradberry told reporters following Philadelphia’s 38-35 loss. “I tugged his jersey. I was hoping they would let it slide.”
It wasn't the contact that was the problem is was the grabbing the jersey to prevent the receiver from releasing into his route. If a DB grabs the jersey like that and awful lot of balls will look uncatchable.
It’s kind of a double edge sword. If you lessen the plenty DBs as soon as they are beat will just take the yards. Right now as you say it is just devastating. I stg every big call has DH called all the time
So, you don’t mind when your QB throws a perfect pass, but the defensive back perfectly times a nearly perfect hold to throw off the receiver’s route so the ball looks overthrown?
It’s right there, in his break, tugged the jersey
And he admitted so
It was an all pro move, and unfortunately they get away with it more than they should.
More consistent yes
I actually disagree, I believe it effected the play, it was enough to stop his momentum and that play has to be perfect.
I understand the frustration, I’ve been a Chief’s fan my whole life, when Dee Ford lines up in the the neutral zone all through the game, then the flag, look at that one.
It’s about consistency
Not at all, I think it should be a 5yd penalty but not an automatic first down. I'm just saying it wasn't close to a perfect pass and the WR didn't even react like he got held. When was the last time a WR didn't beg for a flag on any kind of contact 😂
Why not just give linemen clubbed hands like they do for injuries? Impossible to grab.
(I'm only half-joking, I realize they need mobility in their hands, but it would be interesting to see both lines with that limitation).
I don’t know if anyone saw that crazy helmet to helmet in the 1st qt they didn’t call. That was nuts and a clear foul, but it seemed to set the tone for the game, but to Make that holding call on 3rd down when bruh barely touched him was crazy. So inconsistent
Increasing the yardage to ten essentially guarantees a first down most of the time anyway. I think they need to evaluate allowed contact within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage. DBs can't do anything anymore
Good point.
It wasn't contact that was the problem, the DB grabbed a handful of jersey. The first 4 replays showed the action from the end zone, you couldn't see the grab. They had an angle from the QBs perspective, you can clearly see the jersey grab. Are you proposing legalizing grabbing the jersey to slow the receiver up?
No, a jersey grab is the first thing they look for. It was a flag. I am just saying they make so many rules on what defenses can't do that it makes it very difficult to play defense. I think they should evaluate that.
I think its because getting away with penalties is part of the game, and it benefits the offense more. The refs can only keep track of so much ~~even though the nfl could easily afford an army of sky refs so that every player had 3 guys watching him~~, and there's a lot of value to be gained from small holds. You can get away with it for a while, but when the ball gets thrown your way, you have every set of eyes on you. It gets more confusing when refs start to let things go to just "let them play'. It sets a trap that you arguably can't even complain about. Do you want to give up the 3 holds you got away with? The real problem here is it allows the rules to be enforced unevenly. fuck "letting them play". hire a shitton of dudes and make things more predictable for the players.
It's fine. It's the consistency of officiating that needs to be looked at. You can't just let things go all game then throw the flag in the 4th quarter.
agreed with this - I think I remember 1 other defensive holding penalty during the game. I don't understand why they called it then when they seemed to have been 'letting them play' all game.
I'm fine with him throwing the flag because he thinks it's a penalty, which is probably was. But they should have huddled up and realized they weren't calling anything the whole game to make a group decision.
But it’s such a useful bullshit tool to swing a game for the refs to use in a critical situation!
Of course! Because Vegas!
If only they had called THE BLATANT PI John Mobley committed against Mark Chmura in Super Bowl XXXII
It should be a replay of down not a first down.
Agreed. Just like offensive holding.
Or maybe just a 5 yard penalty and replay of the down.
The whole point of officiating is to make it a level playing field so a team can't cheat to win. There are tons of calls that simply come to judgement on an event that happened in the blink of an eye. It would be nice if the outcome of the penalty was taken into consideration a little more than it is. I get it is supposed to be more black and white than that, it either is or isn't a penalty. But, while it was technically a hold, it wasn't enough to hold back someone like an athlete and it was a shit throw. Couple that with the fact the penalty all but seals the game, you shouldn't make that call.
So let the DB mug the receiver, but don't call a penalty. Is that your solution?
Hello DJ Khaled. I have no idea how you read what I said and your takeaway was: >So let the DB mug the receiver, but don't call a penalty. Is that your solution? My solution is, given that it wasn't really that egregious and that it basically decides the game maybe keep the flag tucked away for one more play. Especially when you have been letting them play fairly aggressive for the last 49 minutes of football.
DB's are going to realize the flag is tucked away and progressively ratchet up the mugging until the flag gets thrown, that's how it works. Players always push the boundaries. Tugging of the jersey to delay the receiver getting into the route is a very effective measure if the referee lets you get away with ie.
THIS! All game the flags were pretty well tucked away (a good thing). Now, with less a minute they throw that one. Ticky Tack call, with no time for Philly to recover.
The problem with penalties like offensive holding and defensive holding is that they occur on every play, which makes it too easy for the refs to call or not call at critical moments to help sway the game a particular way. If you're not calling it all game, it lulls both teams into a false sense of what's allowed and then bam - call it when it matters most to one of the teams. With all the money on the line and the NFL in bed with Fan Duel and all that shit, if you don't think the refs have their thumbs on the scale to influence the outcomes then you're not paying attention.
This
Agreed, it's kind of insane how a defensive holding can instantly "end" a game, that otherwise is close. Unrelated but I also think they need to get rid of the whole "victory formation" nonsense. I don't know of another sport where a close game can be "all but over" with 2 minutes left. It makes games so anti climatic and boring at the end - especially when a critical penatalty is called. Have just a one minute warning, and under a minute left in the half game clock should only run while play is active.
The CFL solved the victory formation by saying the clock stops any time the ball is dead in the last three minutes of each half.
Genuinely great rule
I always liked the Arena Football League solution of the offense having to gain yards to keep the clock running in the final minute. Gave the defense a fighting chance and the offense couldn't take the easy way out.
1pt lead with 2min left in NBA: super tense game down to the wire 1run lead in the 9th in MLB: super tense game, every AB matters 1goal lead with 2min left in NHL: Offense going all out to try and score 1pt lead in with 2min left in NFL: Game over, we're done here folks
2 goal lead in the first half of a soccer match, we're done folks.
1 goal lead at any time in a soccer match
Couldn't have stated it better myself.
I honestly put on my conspiracy cap.. Alot of strange calls since gambling became legal in the league...
Or the cornerback can simply not hold the wr in a key spot. I’m mean go ahead and bitch about conspiracy theories….
Let imagine the corner was playing that way the entire game….. then they called it on the last pass play
From the corner himself post game presser…. ‘It was a holding,” Bradberry told reporters following Philadelphia’s 38-35 loss. “I tugged his jersey. I was hoping they would let it slide.”
The last sentence… they let it slide for 58 minutes
Thats not holding. He made contact behind the line and let him go. The ball also had no chance for completion anyway. That was a bs call.
The ball being catchable or not doesn’t have anything to do with defensive holding. That’s for PI only
He admitted that he held him
He literally said he held him and thought he could get away with it. It was a hold lol
It wasn't the contact that was the problem is was the grabbing the jersey to prevent the receiver from releasing into his route. If a DB grabs the jersey like that and awful lot of balls will look uncatchable.
It’s kind of a double edge sword. If you lessen the plenty DBs as soon as they are beat will just take the yards. Right now as you say it is just devastating. I stg every big call has DH called all the time
I think possibly make DH a spot foul up to 10 yds and only an automatic 1st if its beyond 10 yds.
Replace 10 yards with the current distance to first.
I like this.
You are bitching about something that actually happened https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/\_/id/35649481/eagles-cb-cops-holding-hoping-let-slide
Not bitching on whether it happened. Bitching about the punishment for the crime.
So, you don’t mind when your QB throws a perfect pass, but the defensive back perfectly times a nearly perfect hold to throw off the receiver’s route so the ball looks overthrown? It’s right there, in his break, tugged the jersey And he admitted so It was an all pro move, and unfortunately they get away with it more than they should. More consistent yes
That ball was overthrown whether he was held or not.
So, the referee has to decide whether a penalty will effect a play, before he throws a flag? Wouldn’t it be better if they were just more consistent?
I actually disagree, I believe it effected the play, it was enough to stop his momentum and that play has to be perfect. I understand the frustration, I’ve been a Chief’s fan my whole life, when Dee Ford lines up in the the neutral zone all through the game, then the flag, look at that one. It’s about consistency
Not at all, I think it should be a 5yd penalty but not an automatic first down. I'm just saying it wasn't close to a perfect pass and the WR didn't even react like he got held. When was the last time a WR didn't beg for a flag on any kind of contact 😂
Why not just give linemen clubbed hands like they do for injuries? Impossible to grab. (I'm only half-joking, I realize they need mobility in their hands, but it would be interesting to see both lines with that limitation).
I don’t know if anyone saw that crazy helmet to helmet in the 1st qt they didn’t call. That was nuts and a clear foul, but it seemed to set the tone for the game, but to Make that holding call on 3rd down when bruh barely touched him was crazy. So inconsistent