Not saying I agree with all of those (I personally am in the Barry and 12 need to move on camp), however why are people who have opinions differing from yours, including those that want the full fire sale, any less of fans than you? Why are they MFers? I don't get this sentiment.
Thats stupid lol how about I ask and then I can form my own opinion? Yeah he potentially fucked up Jordan love but his drafts are usually solid. MLF was a great hire imo and their first choice of DC didn't pan out
Until he fires him, I’m going to assume his word is true.
When I’m proven wrong, I will jump for joy that the useless Joe Barry isn’t coaching in Green Bay anymore.
Sure is for LaFleur. Going for it on 4th down on your own fucking 40 when he did it should be grounds for firing him. How about sticking with amari Rodgers as long as he did? He’s not some god you know. Jesus fucking Christ he deserves to be fired simply for giving Joe Berry a job.
i don't think any of them are crazy opinions. i think all of them are fair. blowing the entire thing up though is not a realistic thing to do at this point though. some people do deserve to lose their jobs, but what the right cuts are is pretty subjective and a legitimate case can be made for each person.
Look at how many teams have won a SB with their QB taking up 13%+ of the cap.
Their are basically 2 types of teams winning the SB. Build a great roster and pay everyone and have a QB on a rookie deal or have a HOF QB and win 1-2 SB with him.
The only outlier is Brady.
Problem is we’ve been doing scenario two for damn near a decade or over and haven’t even gotten into the Super Bowl.
At a certain point it’s time to say enough, we haven’t won with 12 and he is not getting younger. We drafted a 1st round QB for a reason.
At the end of the day this is a business and I rather we move on now rather than moving on later.
That's my point. By paying a QB a large portion of the cap, you handicap the rest of your team.
Peyton - 1 SB with the Colts, went to a loaded Denver team on an extremely cheap deal to get #2.
Brees - 1
Favre - 1
Rothlisberger - 2 (one on a rookie deal and one the first year of his 1st big deal when the cap hit was only 6m)
Rivers - 0
Ryan - 0
Marino - 0
Rodgers - 0
Eli - 2 ( both wins under 10% of cap)
Stafford - 1
Elway - 2
Moon - 0
Tarkenton - 0
Palmer - 0
Besides Brady, those are the top 15 QBs in passing yards overall
Just be prepared for the decades of QB searching and losing games. It’s the most likely scenario, most franchises go through it. We have a HOF guy that’s a year removed from his second MVP in a row. People think Love is just gonna step in and take us there within a couple years. FAVRE to RODGERS is not normal, and we will likely struggle through multiple QBs before we get anything close to them.
If we’re lucky and Love is a guy, there is still a likely scenario Rodgers comes back next year and we keep Love for 2024. I don’t understand why people don’t see this is best case scenario.
We’re going to have to make that search eventually though. Keeping Rodgers for one more year to struggle to a 9-8 record is only delaying the inevitable. If anything, it’ll make the FO’s job even harder, because it makes Love much less likely as an option.
If this team was in a position to make a legitimate push with Rodgers, then sure. But they aren’t, barring a miracle draft. We’re bleeding talent, and we don’t have the money to keep plugging those holes. Add in that Rodgers is only getting older, and that the proverbial QB cliff could show up at any time, and I’d bet on the wheels falling off before another legit run if we try to run things back yet again with minimal changes.
> If we’re lucky and Love is a guy, there is still a likely scenario Rodgers comes back next year and we keep Love for 2024. I don’t understand why people don’t see this is best case scenario.
Rodgers’ dead cap hit only gets worse next year, and we’d have to exercise Love’s 5th year option at that point. We’d be devoting a ridiculous amount of money towards a QB room that might end up being terrible. That’s not gonna work.
If we’re going to give Love a shot, we have to move on from Rodgers now. The money just isn’t gonna work otherwise.
Wanting Barry and Stenavich gone is reasonable.
Wanting Gute gone is pretty reasonable as well. Trading up for Love with Tee Higgins available may very well be the worst draft pick of the past 20 years when you consider that it’s almost time to give Love a contract. So we can’t even save money on him on the off chance that he is a franchise QB.
Wanting MLF, 12, and Jones gone is unreasonable at this point.
Wanting Stenavich gone is dumb, he is one of the best o-line coaches in the league and it was his 1st year as OC. You have to give him at minimum 1 more year as OC, and I also don't think he was that bad, our offensive struggles seemed more to be with players struggling rather than any sort of scheme or play calling issues.
Our redzone offense completely fell apart this past year, we spent the first half the season wondering why we weren’t running the ball more, and in general I saw very little creativity or adjustments or planning that would lead me to believe that Stenavich is the best choice for the job.
Stenavich is a classic case of promoting someone beyond their level of competence because they were so good at their job that it was the only way to reward them.
We don’t have time to let coaches develop, Rodgers is retiring soon. MLF might want to believe he will be around for a decade but when Murphy is gone in 2025, the next president will want to make his mark by bringing in his guys.
If MLF hopes to survive that, I think it’s been clear from the beginning that he needs to win with the remaining years he has left with 12. If he can’t do that, and can’t find coaches who can help him, they’re all getting fired.
> So we can’t even save money on him on the off chance that he is a franchise QB.
No one in the front office EVER cared about this. That is only something young fans drool over.
If that’s the case then I can’t wait until the FO is all cleared out.
It got the Chiefs, Seahawks, and Bengals to the super bowl and made them into FA destinations with cap room to spare.
Look at how many teams have won a SB with their QB taking up 13%+ of the cap.
Their are basically 2 types of teams winning the SB. Build a great roster and pay everyone and have a QB on a rookie deal or have a HOF QB and win 1-2 SB with him.
The only outlier is Brady.
That's not the point. The point is paying QBs big money isn't a recipe for winning a SB. Will it get you long term success and multiple years of making the playoffs? Yes. Will it get you multiple SB? No.
Damn near nobody gets multiple Super Bowls, so I don’t really get what your point is here. Mahomes still only has one. Burrow has none. Allen has none. The list of QBs who have two SB wins is incredibly short.
If paying a HoF QB big money is what it takes to win a SB, then it’s a successful strategy. Even if it only wins you one, that’s still worth it.
Drafting new QBs almost guarantees that you won’t win one either. That’s what happens when only 1/32 teams can win in any given year. You’re gonna have incredibly low odds no matter what you do.
It takes a lot of luck to win a SB, and paying your QB maximizes your chances. I don’t see how that should be considered a worse strategy than immediately ejecting a good QB to play the draft lottery again.
Right here is the problem man. I agree, MLF should stay and I 100% disagree with any argument otherwise....but that doesn't make the other person an idiot. This mentality is why we get so divided on everything these days. A person coming to a different conclussion is not an idicator of lack of critical thought. Its an idication that they have different inputs and different values.
I can agree with that in most cases, but not this one. If someone wants MLF fired, they've practice zero critical thinking. They've reacted to their own anger. It's simply not possible to actually complete any train of thought about the past four seasons and come to the conclusion that MLF needs to be fired. That is admittedly just my opinion, but I have yet to see it be proven otherwise (someone actually giving a well thought out reasoning that MLF is the problem)
Ok. Just to play devils advocate and eleborate my point, if I am a person that feels the Packers are at a place where the only success measurement is superbowl wins, and I feel the most important factors are coaching and QB play, then I look at the last 4 years as being a failure and as Rodgers has shown he is capable of winning the ring, then I have to blame MLF. Now, again, I dont personally agree. But there are PLENTY of NFL fans out there that attribute the Patriots dynasty to just Bill and Tom. They had a carosel of other assistant coaches, other players, etc, so while I disagree, its not out of the realm of possibility that the success can be pinned to both. The level of critical thinking there may not be as deep in reviewing all the factors as you might do, but again, that may not be due to lack of intellect. It might be a preference to what they believe is important. I personally struggle with this too, please dont take me as preaching my perfection. I just think at times like this when tempers are high, it helps to have an open mind and leave out the "well except in this case". If we can do that with something like sports fandom, it gives me hope that can do it for things with meaningful consequences.
You don't think it's possible La Fleur was propped up the previous 3 seasons by MVP HOF QB play? Isn't it possible that he's been out coached in some big games? We have no way of knowing for sure so of course it's possible, wanting to move on from him is a valid opinion.
Is it possible that his scheme is what led to Rodgers, who came off the two worst years of his career with the exact same offensive lineup, to back to back MVP seasons? We don't know if MLF was a great coach before he came to GB because it was his first gig. We do know Rodgers was regressing and playing nowhere even in the same side of the planet close to his potential, and then he immediately had two of the best years of his career.
If you want to factor in only the pieces of information we know for certain, MLF improved this team. By a massive margin. There is no evidence of the contrary.
Yet there is a large portion of this fanbase that would rather spin the head coach roulette wheel and think there's a realistic chance we get someone even better. I'm sorry, I cannot come to an outcome/scenario in my mind that those people have the ability of critical thought.
I want to see MLF lead whoever is the next young gun. Need to see what this offense looks like when it's more on schedule, and with a QB more willing to take what's there, instead of forcing the big play.
Will it work out? No one knows, anyone claiming otherwise is an idiot.
I agree with your point. I will stand by my original point though. Given what we've seen and what we know, anyone that thinks MLF is the problem and should be fired is just an idiot.
Or was McCarthy that bad and Rodgers and the team would have improved with almost anyone at the helm? Would we have one or two more SB appearances with a coach better than La Fleur? We don't know and never will. You are basing your opinion on the exact same information everyone has so how you've come to the conclusion that your opinion is the only correct one is beyond me.
Is MLF a good coach? Yes. Is he a great coach? No. Could you get worse by firing him? Yes. Could you get better? Yes.
The last 4 seasons have basically ended the same. The team has been outcoached and outplayed in the last game of the season.
There have been 2-4 teams in the entire league that outperformed the Packers for three straight years, and this year we still outperformed more than half the league. The odds of improving by firing the coach that led you to those results are *much, much, much, much, much, much* worse than your odds of improving.
Edit: I also worded that poorly. Zero teams outperformed the Packers over the three year span. 2-4 individual teams outperformed them in each individual year, while the Packers outperformed them in the other years.
This whole *if we don't win the Superbowl the entire organization is a failure* is one of the most toxic and braindead mindsets I've seen in my entire life.
I mean, that's literally the goal every year. If you're not playing to win the SB why are you out there? What's the saying? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result?
So 31 teams every year are either insane, complete failures, or both?
Are you better at everything that you do than anyone else that exists? If not, does that mean you're insane, or you're a complete failure?
One team wins the Superbowl. Almost always it's not the same team as last year. Fans expectations for success are so fucking dumb lmao.
There are 14 teams that make the playoffs. If you make the playoffs you don't suck, but uf you don't win the super bowl the season is a failure.
If you don't make the playoffs and are under .500 you suck
I'm excited for next year for the Packers
You can’t support the team and tell the team to fire everyone, the packers suck, yadda yadda. Lots of people in this subreddit seem to have a hateboner for how the packers are run. We had an amazing 3 years getting 13 wins each, and had a middle season of 8-9. Let’s chill and reload for next year - which I do fully expect is Rodgers last year
Reload how exactly? With what cap? We gave it a shot the last three years just to come up short and we couldn’t even make the playoffs this season. I don’t want everyone fired, but some changes are needed. We can’t keep the status quo. It’s not good enough.
With draft picks. We’ve gotten great value from Watson and Doubs. This is a year1 team that has great potential to become even better next year. Our super bowl run was the same - we loaded up in the draft the 2 years before and made a run. Gutes drafts before 2022 I thought were pretty awful. We’ve finally made gains in defense and have a pretty complete team for next year. I’m excited for one more year of Rodgers at the helm. Doing badly and getting 8-9 I think it’s great. Multiple 13 win seasons is unsustainable for any team in the league
We were $50M over the cap starting the off-season last year. We are $5M over the cap going into this off-season.
Say it with me: the cap is not an issue.
There is churn on players every year. Reddit gets mad about every year. If the team wants to sign new players and make “some changes” - they can. We will pay for it down the line - maybe in a big way, maybe in a small way.
> You can’t support the team and tell the team to fire everyone, the packers suck, yadda yadda.
Agreed. Thats not supporting the team. The team makes the decisions, and you decide whether to support the team or not.
Saying I want the Packers to win with all different players and coaches and run completely different, isn't supporting the team. Its just wanting to run it yourself.
What the hell is the point of being a fan of a Team on Reddit if you can't express your opinion no matter how stupid? And why does it matter to you so much how much stupid shit we say?
That being said, Fire Barry, trade for Davante Adams, clone Watson, lower ticket prices, schedule more games against the Bears, bring back Brett Favre as a morality coach and let the fans call the plays.
For me it matters because it's a subreddit I belong to about a team I love to watch and be a fan of. Seeing players I like to watch being trash-talked and people 'losing all faith' in a team due to a down year is a downer for me to read about. And no, I won't stop reading r/GreenBayPackers due to that but I'd love to give people some perspective on the absolute BS they're spouting in hopes they might look at things in a different light.
But at the end of the day it's the internet....
>And no, I won't stop reading
>
>r/GreenBayPackers
>
> due to that but I'd love to give people some perspective on the absolute BS they're spouting in hopes they might look at things in a different light.
So your main motivation for staying on this board is offer different perspective to people, and yet you can't fathom to read a different perspective other than your own? Or at least you only see your own perspective as the correct one and see any other perspective as one which must be changed to your perspective?
I don't mind different perspective. I mind when people go wholesale doomsayer. You wanna fire the whole front office? You want to replace everything but the Oline? People are talking like we're the worst team in the NFL. That's the Chicago Bears...who are in our division.
Honestly, I don't see much of that, but I'm sure full blown doomerism can indeed be found on this board. I think I see as much if not more sub-loathing ("this sub sux lolol" "this sub is sooo toxic!") and "toxic positivity" posts than doomer-posts.
Successful engineers, CEOs, investors never rest on their laurels. Even during record successes they are always trouble shooting and looking for ways to improve. Some people have brains that are more engaged by critique problem-seeking. Now I'm not saying everyone on here who critiques the team is a CEO sigma grindsetter. But to problem solve, you have to be someone who looks for problems.
You don't have to answer these but these are the types of questions I would pose to cheerleaders on this board:
What went wrong this season and why? Can we fix it? What did the front office do well? How could it have done better?
> What went wrong this season and why?
As fans we don't know the behind the scenes details.
> Can we fix it?
We don't have control over decisions. Further what is "fixed"? What is the goal?
> What did the front office do well?
As fans we don't know the behind the scenes details. We aren't privy to enough information to have intelligent thoughts.
> How could it have done better?
As fans we don't know the behind the scenes details for why they made the decisions they made. And thus don't even know what other choices there were to be made or what implications they had.
So you literally have no thoughts or opinions on this season? Like what?
We went from 13-3 last year to 8-9 this year. You don't think its possible or permissible for a fan to even consider how this occurred?
Right there with you. Its all so over the top.
Also, do the people calling for a complete tear down realize that if that actually happened then we would probably have several seasons in a row where we would suck. Do they take that into consideration? Nope. Its like a complete tear down will magically fix everything. I mean, if they are sooooo smart when it comes to managing a NFL team, then maybe they need to look at a career change because obviously they know way more about it than the people that have been doing it their entire lives. :rolling\_eyes:
I love all of these sanctimonious posts that try to nullify any criticism directed at the team. Gutekunst has work to do to get below the salary cap, they’ve got a lot of free agents, and we won’t know what’s going to happen with Rodgers for a while. This team is not in a good place right now.
Just give up man. This happens literally every year after a loss and it's not a battle worth fighting. As soon as the Packers win a game next season everyone will be praising everybody. It's just the way it is and I've given up trying to get people to be level headed on the internet.
30 years with 2 NFL HoF QBs, roughly 5 decent years of top 10 Defenses. Pretty much never had a Special Teams worth a damn. Results? 2 SB wins in 3 appearances.
Meanwhile Brady does more while having fairly solid defense for most of his career, Special teams rarely costed him a game (at least not that I can think of). It's painful to watch the FO fuck things up so bad while a 6th Rounder will go down as the Goat, when we had the one with the most potential. No disrespect to Brady for what he accomplished, but God damn, if we had cleaned up the issues I mentioned before more regularly, we would have more SB titles.
I truly love the team, and always will support it. It just breaks my heart that we never created a true dynasty when Qb is arguably the center piece and we spent too much fucking around with Best Available Drafting which led to a lot of wasted opportunities / busts.
Fairly solid is a little misleading. I am pretty sure Brady has only had sub-Top 10 defenses twice in his entire career. The front office failed Rodgers.
I don’t think you give Brady enough credit. QB play is so much more than talent. His passer rating in the playoffs is better than his regular season. It’s weird seeing that goofy baby giraffe out there but the dood is fierce and the moment doesn’t make him flinch. Brady has more than 3x the playoff games and yet three of Rodgers playoff games, including 2 in NFC Championship games, Rodgers has a worse rating than any of Brady’s. I agree his defenses have sucked. The one year he had a great one he needed it in an epically bad NFC Championship game against the Bears and they got past it and won the Super Bowl. I think the defense bailed them out against Philly that year too. That Bears game, and the Bears win and in game to end the season, was worse than any of Brady’s three seasons worth of playoff games. They needed a pick 6 by BJ Raji to beat Caleb Freaking Hanie. If Rodgers (and special teams) don’t screw the pooch they beat Seattle too. Point is, watching Rodgers you KNOW he’s better than Brady. Except when it’s elimination time. That dude gets it done.
Exactly, do not overreact.
Never change, run it back, and remember we are the unequaled Green Bay Packers.
Wy do Packer fans always forget to R E L A X?
Just look at all those Super Bowls the team has been to since Aaron uttered that famous line back in 2012.
So fans just need to sit back and get ready to enjoy more of the same in 2023.
How can you not be excited for what is to come?
The great thing about reddit is absolutely none of this matters. The hot takes are ridiculous but like you said no one from the org is looking at these dumb posts. Flip side -telling the sub they should be positive is equally pointless. No one outside of reddit cares about what's said on reddit.
I would say it goes both ways. What kind of dictatorship would this subreddit be if you couldn't be critical of the Packers? Also, please stop trying to hang hats on 13 win seasons if it doesn't amount to anything. The regular season doesn't mean a thing.
>Also, please stop trying to hang hats on 13 win seasons if it doesn't amount to anything. The regular season doesn't mean a thing.
First 13 win season w/ lafleur: Wow that is incredible! We got blown out in the NFCCG but what a turnaround, excited for the future!
Second 13 win season: Aw man this is incredible!....and then that choke job in the NFCCCG really stings. Kinda puts a damper on an MVP season and all that regular season success
Third 13 win season: Wow, another MVP season, surely THIS is the year we get over the hump....how can a merciful god allow this to happen
> Also, please stop trying to hang hats on 13 win seasons if it doesn't amount to anything. The regular season doesn't mean a thing.
Do you only watch for the off chance that some year you get to brag to another teams fan that your team won? Or do you only tune in for playoff games or something? Thats how I treat the Bucks but I also don't go complaining on that sub that Middleton makes like 20 fucking million.
I don't think I'm overreacting. Here is my logic. Mark Murphy is the president of the org. Buck stops there. He was slow to address the Ted Thompson issue when Ted's health was declining and work as a GM wasn't going well. Ted's last several draft years were really not good. Mark Murphy was slow to deal with McCarthy as coach. Probably due deferral to Ted who was in significant decline. Mark has done really well on the business side of the Org with Titletown. Really well. Football side, not so much.
So Ted steps down or is forced down. Gutey takes over and immediately pisses off his future HOF QB by trading up to take a QB in the first round. Doesn't fix the need for receivers, but drafts a QB. With new coaching, team goes 13-3, loses in the NFC championship game. Ok, good, fix the holes and go after a Superbowl, right? Gutey says no. Does not fix the receiving holes. Doesn't address special teams. Does what he wants which no one understands and even fewer agree with. So team goes 13-3 again and loses in the NFC championship game. Tampa Bay went all in with their HOF QB and wins the Superbowl. Mark Murphy does nothing that anyone knows about.
So, year 3 has Rams going all in with a veteran QB. Pack is gonna do that for sure!!! Gutey says awe fuck no. Stops a special teams coach hire because it's too expensive despite that being a big need for years. Address the receiver issue? Awe hell no. Piss off the best receiver in the league? Awe hell yeah!! Team goes 13-3 and loses in the playoffs. Mark Murphy did nothing, Gutey has no known plan, the #1 receiver is pissed off and special teams operated like a peewee league. Oh yeah, Rams went all in and won the Superbowl.
Finally, for this past season, we have no #1 receiver. They finally can get a special teams coach but still all in on Amari Rogers. So Gutey has no choice but to finally draft receivers. But signs only one veteran receiver that hasn't played a complete season in years. Your HOF QB is like WTF and doing hallucinogens to try to make since of Gutey's work. Finally, after total undeniable failure, Amari Rogers finally gets cut. Special Teams with a good coach starts doing better. Offense is dogshit. Defense looks like a step up from a peewee league. The second half of the season had really only special teams doing anything. Defense looked good against what? Teams that suck worse than the Pack.
So, Mark moved Gutey to GM, Gutey is handed a HOF QB, and...does exactly fuck all. For 4 years in a row. The business side, they have done very well. The football side is an absolute failure. 3 years of 13-3 regular season and absolutely doing jack shit to address their glaring issues. Mark Murphy and the team he put in place have wasted so many years of having a HOF QB and HOF recovers in Jordy, Adams, etc. So yeah, I honestly don't think I'm overreacting.
Man, I am old enough to vaguely remember Lynn Dickey in 85, and the Majik Man really coming into his own a few years after him.. we had some horrible years mid to late 80s, and 89 was a vivid year for me as we exploded from a 4 win season to a 10 win season.
Teams have ups and downs, but we are spoiled. We haven't had a losing season in a long time, and although we can be critical I don't think it's good to tear down our own team, we shouldn't be fair weather fans.
The biggest overreaction is that Rodgers is washed. Back to back reigning MVP loses the best WR in the league and fractures his thumb on his THROWING HAND and all of sudden it’s time for the new era. If you want to criticize his lack of commitment, that’s one thing. Talent wise, he could play for at least 5 more years at a top 5 level.
This season was a failure, we are on borrowed time with Rodgers, and our Super Bowl window is just about closed. I get peoples frustrations, and I understand that some people sound like they are overreacting. However, their 'overreactions' might be what they think is genuinely best for the franchise to get them to the point where they are consistent winners again. Some people feel more drastic steps should be taken than others. So I guess what would you do this offseason if you had the ability to make changes if any?
*edit for typo
We've been trying to do the same thing over and over again for the past few years now and it has not worked. Thinking nothing needs to change and that we can just run it back again next year with different results is delusional, at best.
I wish some of you would stop UNDER-reacting.
At the end or the day, people are going to fan however they want. Don’t let it affect how you are as a fan. If you see a stupid take, downvote and move on.
There are underlying issues and trends that have not changed in the past 4 years. This team can't fight back when it gets punched in the mouth and that is indicative of overall leadership and philosophy. There are 7 (8?) First round picks on the defensive side of the ball and the defense has been bottom half of the league every year. You can luck your way into a 13 win season, look at the Minnesota Vikings
I agree we should not overreact but tell me under what logic should Joe Barry be retained? He cost us this season and next season isn’t going to result in a Super Bowl so he should be the first to go
The defense is not good enough to win a championship. The investment in players has been significant. The coaching is lacking. It’s not an overreaction to think a change at coordinator is pertinent.
Wanting Rodgers gone is debatable. I personally am ready for the team to move on/Rodgers retire but understand if neither of those happen.
Wanting Gute/MLF gone is overreacting.
Overreaction or not this organization is who they are. Whether it was under TT or Murphy
Or whoever comes after him. This organization will make a right decision, but not until excepting mediocre results for long long time. Lets just ride on go pack go
This is a big problem I have with our fans right now. If people say they want some changes. Then you’re labeled a bad fan, overreacting, and negative.
If you say, I support this team! Rodgers forever! MLF forever etc. then you’re labeled a shill.
We can be both. We can look at what’s happened since MLF has taken over and be both happy and disappointed. And that doesn’t make you a bad fan.
Hey, can we have a thread where everyone reveals how young they are, please? Half these users weren't sentient for the crappy end days of Favre, let alone Majik Man.
“Let’s get rid of our three or so best players and our historically great young coach and just replace them with better options. I don’t get what’s so unreasonable about that!”
yes the sky isn't falling but how many games did it take to incorporate Jones more heavily? If we didn't make a ruckus would Joe Barry have ever play more Cover 2 and Cover 6?
What I'm saying is, we do have an impact by the way of our public press conferences. We the fans matter
Nothing will change with our defense. We will finish 18th at best and 26th at worst and pretend like it isn't a problem while we spend 1st draft pick after 1st round draft pick. Something major has to change because it has been this way for years.
One thing I hear a lot of here is that a lot of the sub is too young to have known anything other than Rodgers, and they're actually more Rodgers fans than Packers fans. That could be true for some people, but I think a truer statement is that a lot of the sub is too young to have known anything other than Brady. People look at Brady, playing at an insanely high level into his 40s, winning or at least playing in most of the super bowls from the past decade and a half, and think that's normal for a generational talented QB. Mahomes' success, recently, appears to confirm that.
Let me be clear: what Brady has accomplished is an outlier in every way, shape, and form. That type of sustained success should be impossible in a league as competitive as the NFL. It's totally skewed expectations for a lot of younger Packers fans who think "We have a generational QB, why aren't we playing in the championship every year?"
Brady won his last 2 super bowls with the patriots because the patriots went all-in. He left the patriots because they had to pay for going all-in and the tank was dry.
He left to go to a stacked team missing only a qb. And he also got gronk to unretire and was completely scrupleless in recruiting Antonio Brown. A hall of famer level wr was their 3rd or 4th option.
Brady has always had a solid o-line (until this season)and a reliable safety valve receiver. He has no problem recruiting people to come.
Meanwhile, the Packers o-line has had constant issues for our playoff runs and Watson was the first good wide receiver we drafted after Tae. We also can’t attract stars to come here, not even JJ Watt.
And of course we were using first picks on a backup QB when the Patriots were breaking their hard rules of drafting by taking a running back and wide receiver in the first for one last ride with Brady.
Brady is a great QB but he had a lot of help. Help we didn’t give Rodgers
Rodgers has a higher QBR and PR than Brady in the playoffs, including in the 4th quarter. He has better tape and highlight reels in the playoffs too. Brady has won 4 superbowls below or just above Rodger's QBR in the 49ers playoff loss last year in horrible snowy weather. Not many people would disagree that by almost every metric Rodgers is superior to Brady at the position of QB.
The difference is Brady has had better ranked defenses and special teams in the playoffs, and its not even close. This more than anything is what separates the careers of Brady and Rodgers. The Patriots division, luck and their front office/coaching also heavily contribute to the "success" of the two QBs.
Honestly, people need to actually watch tape of Brady in general and in the playoffs. Especially early on his career. Those defenses won the superbowls and Brady was mostly a game manager.
Edit: fixed word usage
I've been watching Brady win in the playoffs his entire career. It certainly helps a team when the QB takes team friendly deals so they can build up other areas, and that's always been part of Brady's secret sauce
The sub being young is a great point. I'm not 'old' per-se but I did get a lot of years of sub .500 teams so it's not out of hand for it to happen for me.
Exactly - young fans probably started their list of Packers memories with Rodgers winning in 2010 and haven't really known anything other than routine success
Firstly you can't use "before 92", pretty sure 95% of the team wasn't even born yet. You also can't use it because who cares? Yes they were bad before 92, what's your point? 30 years later what we can't be upset about blowing a season? A defense that can't seem to ever get better? A quarterback who spends more time trolling fans and sportswriters with funky haircuts and being weird (and I'm not talking about rona). And you're right the three seasons before we had 13 wins. We also didn't make the super bowl each of those seasons and without looking I'm pretty sure we got bounced in the first or second round. We keep hearing about all this talent and how awesome this team is but can't seem to do anything about it. I'd be loaded if I had a dollar for every time I saw a packer defenseman stand still with his arms out and looking like he was waiting for the offensive player to run into his arms for a tackle.
Man, don't bite my head off I'm just telling you what I've read and seen. Shit when people started posting how he had his 2010 haircut and to book tickets to the super bowl..and you can't tell me he had that cut in a serious manner he looked like a complete idiot haha
You didn't specify in your comment that this is was what you read. Your words are "A quarterback who spends more time trolling fans and sportswriters with funky haircuts".
Reminds me of all the blue hairs of Wisconsin. Did you see that guys haircut? How did they get a job?
You can support your team while still realizing that changes need to be made. Being a fan doesn't require you to blind yourself to the shortcomings of your team.
Subreddits are for overreacting day-to-day, game-to-game, etc. Remember, just two weeks ago the defense had it all figured out, and the offense was lethal.
It's very weird to start your "stop overreacting" post with
"Look - we were good last year".
The other 3 teams in the north have gotten better. We've stagnated then got worse. Our HoF QB is likely to leave soon.
We have one pro bowler this year. One. On a team that was supposed to be a Contender.
I'm not saying the sky is falling but I'm also not overreacting. It's just the truth. This team is worse, we're not the best in the division anymore and things are going to get worse before they get better.
We’re three days into the offseason. This is the time for overreaction. In general though this sub tends to be less reactionary than other places on the internet (Facebook, Twitter, etc.) so typically opinions that get upvoted here are fairly popular and coming from mostly level-headed fans. Not to say we don’t have our fair share of biases and groupthink going on. I just think it’s perfectly reasonable to criticize coaches and players given what a dog shit season it was. Obviously no one here thinks we need to fire everyone, but changes clearly need to be made. Yes, we have been a successful organization for the past few decades, but that doesn’t mean shit right now. You can support your team and also have opinions. It’s not a crime.
Personally I don't think firing/demoting some coordinators should be out of the question. At the bare minimum Matt Lafleur could even use losing his job as motivation for Barry to run the defense like it should be run. There's absolutely zero excuse why this shouldn't be an elite defense. What is it, like 7 former 1st round picks on this defense? And as for stenavich, I loved him as an OL coach, but he's not an OC. This offense is not performing up to its potential. Of course there could be a lot of reasons why, but it's something to look at. Howeever I still think I would prefer stenavich at OC as opposed to the Jets OC that got fired
I think the issue is this team has a lot of compounding problems that are still around. Before I start, this isn’t a shit on Rodgers comment and hopefully I can be objective.
1) Though we had two 13 win seasons, we got out played in crucial games offensively by the likes of Old Man Tom Brady and the Buccaneers and Jimmy G led 49ers. Add in the Geoff led Lions now. Rodgers it seems the past 4 seasons or so has really struggled when met with adversity and while the team is trailing. He finished 15th this season in passer ratings. The stats for the Lions game would have been achievable by any young QB. Yes our WR are young and inexperienced , but this could’ve helped along by Rodgers participating in offseason workouts. All the current star QBs have spent time in the offseason working such as Mahomes, Allan, Brady, Burrow, Herbert, Hurts. You can complain in one hand that WR are an issue while not doing everything you can to help them.
Yes, Rodgers was hurt with the thumb and ribs. That being said if your QB is struggling because of injury then sit him! Before our 3 win streak things couldn’t have gotten worse letting Love start while Rodgers healed. Hell two or three weeks of healing we may have had Rodgers back and healthy.
2) Coaching, coaching, and coaching. Again though MLF has had two miraculous seasons leading up to 2022, we really have no true idea how good he really is. When you inherit a HoF QB and a player roster with some of the very best in the game like Adams or Bakhtiari things become muddled. We do know Rodgers had a hybrid playbook the first year MLF joined. And we know Rodgers changes plays frequently. I think if Rodgers retires we will truly find out if MLF is indeed the genius play maker or mediocre.
MLF play calling at times has been both great and wtf. Ex. NFCC game against the 49ers had some terrible play calling that cost us a trip to the big game. We heard all season that we needed to run the ball more from MLF, yet every week it rarely materialized. Then end of post game interviews, he would give the same excuse. Secondly if the WR are an issue 16 weeks later etc, then what are they doing in practice to fix them. We have seen a lot of complaints in this Sub about WR running incorrect routes. MLF should be working them extra hard to get up to speed.
MLF needs to stop saying we will be better at this, when he should be chewing out the rest of his coaching staff for failure to do their jobs. Piss poor coaching should not be acceptable in his eyes. Yes he’s more of an offensive guy, but letting coaches under him like Pettine and Barry to constantly underperform with their BS play calling is not okay. Our Roster is too damn talented. Good point was Jaire not shadowing every top WR each game. Or the fact that most of the early season games the secondary wasn’t following the QBs tells. It was later pointed out post Vikings game that our secondary started following the QBs eyes and was able to pick routes or break up passes with no issue. Furthermore MLF held onto a bad special teams coordinator for too long that was costing us games. He didn’t pull the plug sooner on Amari Rodgers that was terrible at ball control or yards after a punt/kickoff. If memory serves we were rated near bottom in the league for this.
MLF failing to sit Rodgers when he was hurt was a failure on coaching staff. Yea Rodgers gave us the best chance to win games. At the time we started racking up losses it couldn’t have gotten any worse sitting him for Love. Sure we can now say Rodgers took us on a win streak, but whose to say we don’t win some of those closer loses with Love.
3) As far as our players are concerned. We have a talented group of guys. Sure some are duds, but there is far too much talent to having this many issues. Team needs to stop succumbing to the need to keep guys for moral or team culture purposes. Focus should be to field the best 53-man roster you can cobble together at every position.
Ultimately these few things need to happen for 2023.
- If Barry isn’t let go, then MLF’s fate should be attached to Barry’s performance.
- MLF fate should be decided after a season with Rodgers gone if the above doesn’t happen. We truly need to see a true MLF offense that doesn’t have a Rodgers crutch.
- Mediocre play should not be tolerated. Not when there are tons of players that go undrafted/free agent are just as hungry for their chance to prove themselves.
This is the Green Bay Packers, one of the longest teams to play the game with a rich heritage. This team has inspired youth for decades to chase excellence in football. The team that won the first super bowls led by Lombardi, Starr, and Nitschke. A team that pulled themselves out of purgatory with Holmgren, Favre, and White.
As a fan base we have been spoiled for the last 30 years. But at the same time we have had some miraculous teams in between Super Bowl wins that fell short for dumb reasons. We all love this team otherwise we wouldn’t be here. It’s fine to criticize something you love when you’ve been invested in it for decades, years, or months with purchases of swag, season tickets, and worthless stock options that are priceless in our eyes. Packers will always be special.
Toxic Positivity perceives criticism and analysis in a simplistic and moral fashion. Any commentary other than cheerleading and compliments is too often seen as "negative", "bad" , "cranky" etc.
Some people like to cheerlead. Some people like to analyze, critique, bemoan, commiserate or bitch. We're all people. We're all fans. We're all different. People experience things differently, people behave and react differently.
Great post. We are a blessed franchise. Defensive schemes do have to improve though. Still have no idea why Barry had our guys drop into a zone on 4th and 1 with the game on the line in the red zone. It’s an obvious man press situation.
Have you ever seen a game thread here? Of course the general mood of the sub is a fucking abhorrent overreaction with the type of people here.
The fucking game threads are literally filled with the highest of highs and lowest of lows within plays of each other. I don't really have any other reference points, and I'm sure some NFL fanbase subs are similar... but this one is just insane to me. You wouldn't know if the Packers were up 30-13 or losing 13-30... because the comments are always so dramatic. No one is seemingly happy EVER. Even positive comments have a tinge of gloom to them. "Scored the touchdown, but did you see Dillon missed the block". Who.the.fuck.cares. They scored.
I mean there’s valid complaints, but yeah as a community we complain way too much. The organization isn’t listing to us, they aren’t contemplating our input. It really doesn’t matter because they’re gonna do whatever they want to do.
And it’s not that you shouldn’t give your opinions, some of its valid, but my real issue is that people take it waaaay too seriously. People are acting like Joe Barry murdered their kids. Or that the world is gonna end if we don’t do whatever the fuck fan idea is popular at the time.
This sub gets way too circle-jerky some times
I think we'll be in playoff contention until Rodgers retires as he's always going to give us competence at the QB position.
The issue that will keep us from competing for a Super Bowl is that his cap hit is that of an elite QB. We're paying elite money for what will likely be top-10 to top-15 production from here on out.
The rest of our roster already needs to be outstanding to compete for a title without an elite QB, and we're behind the 8-ball because we're giving Rodgers elite-QB money.
Don't get me wrong...I really like Rodgers, and I love watching him play. It's just difficult to know that the team's ceiling is likely capped until he retires or takes a huge pay cut to allow us to acquire additional talent.
THANK YOU for saying this. The amount of people I’ve heard saying “fire MLF” is disgusting. I swear people are just looking to instigate bc if you’ve watched the packers for more than a season you’d know that firing him is a stupid fucking idea.
I recommend anyone who is sane, just stay away from this subreddit until the draft. We have going to see more ridiculous and dumb takes until people settle down. It was a tough season, but we don't need to blow everything up.
This team was a few plays away from being a 10 win team. Sometimes when it rains, it pours. Sometimes when you think that the Packers' defense will be good enough to keep them in the games while the offense figures its shit out, you lose 5 games in a row.
Next year will be better.
Anything less than a Super Bowl victory every season should be considered a failure, and fans have every right to complain if the team doesn’t achieve that.
Thank you. Every coach and front office person on the team drills into the heads of every player every year that “this is called Titletown for a reason and this franchise expects a trophy every season”. The fans should have the same expectations. I can’t believe how most fans are content with just *contending* and saying that we shouldn’t act spoiled.
I’ve just gotten very annoying with this fan base. And that’s not just on here. Wether it’s podcasts, radio shows, YouTube, Facebook or in person. This fan base has become so split between the fire everyone/trade everyone group. And the everything is fine group.
Most of it is the young generation brainwashed by tv sports media, online social media, fantasy football, etc. Individual players have been pushed to the forefront over the team as a whole and the NFL (and franchises) have taken advantage of that to make more money. Football is now more about superstar players more than anything else and it has ruined the game
If anything people are under reacting. The fan base should expect even more, and consistently only has the bar of "we made the playoffs/beat the Vikes so hurray."
We had the best quarterback in the league for how many years? How many of those years were we competitive against the top teams? Not even beat them, shit happens after all, but simply play as if we were capable of beating them.
Instead the fan base will just reward mediocrity again next season regardless of what happens.
Sometimes this really becomes entitled town. There’s probably 27ish teams that would be dying to trade results with the packers. It’s incredibly difficult to win a super bowl, almost everything needs to go right for you, and most times the year after that team sucks. Need as many trips to the playoffs as possible to try and get that lottery ticket. Spare me with the fire lafluer, send Rodgers into the sun takes. 80% of the team will be the same next year and we’ll be better off than 75% of all teams
I’m gonna be passive aggressive and overreact until Barry is Fired
I'm with you!
The Packers have had THREE HOF quarterbacks in my lifetime, and I still had to suffer through the 70’s and 80’s. Everyone just chill.
How many SBs did they win in the last 30 yrs of HoH QB play. There is a tremendous reason be upset with this franchise.
It’s going to be disheartening if we keep Barry. If we replace him I’ll be excited for a Super Bowl run
Stop overreacting?? On the INTERNET????
You can support the team and still want some changes.
SOME changes, not tearing down the entire teams. MFers on here want MLF, 12, Jones, Barry and Gute gone.
Not saying I agree with all of those (I personally am in the Barry and 12 need to move on camp), however why are people who have opinions differing from yours, including those that want the full fire sale, any less of fans than you? Why are they MFers? I don't get this sentiment.
Some of those are valid, but it’s the internet. Always going to be some crazy opinions out there.
Its not valid to call for LaFleurs and Guteys head. Thats the point
That’s why I said some. I don’t think they should be fired, but the other names listed are valid.
Gutey yes is also in that category
How lol
Multiple bad drafts, bad coordinator hires, and bad contracts under his tenure.
Gutey doesn't hire coordinators.
LaFleur does tho
The topic is Gutey tho
Bruh ain’t never watch a GB game in his life and it shows lmaooo
If you have to ask, don’t have an opinion on it lol
Thats stupid lol how about I ask and then I can form my own opinion? Yeah he potentially fucked up Jordan love but his drafts are usually solid. MLF was a great hire imo and their first choice of DC didn't pan out
Gute going absolutely no one except for a washed Sammy W should tell you all you need to know
Lol you really think that's all he's done recently?
Wrong
MLF won’t fire Barry though, so he gets lumped into getting fired as well
Are you a time traveller or how do you know that?
No just referencing a quote from MLF directly
You mean like Last season where He stated that Drayton wont be fired?
Until he fires him, I’m going to assume his word is true. When I’m proven wrong, I will jump for joy that the useless Joe Barry isn’t coaching in Green Bay anymore.
Sure is for LaFleur. Going for it on 4th down on your own fucking 40 when he did it should be grounds for firing him. How about sticking with amari Rodgers as long as he did? He’s not some god you know. Jesus fucking Christ he deserves to be fired simply for giving Joe Berry a job.
Prime example of being irrational and dumb lol
I mean there’s countless bonehead calls throughout the year. This is just the most recent.
i don't think any of them are crazy opinions. i think all of them are fair. blowing the entire thing up though is not a realistic thing to do at this point though. some people do deserve to lose their jobs, but what the right cuts are is pretty subjective and a legitimate case can be made for each person.
Non are valid! The defense is why we were in a win and in game not the offense lmao
Hope 12 retires. Fire Barry. That’s all I ask for.
Nah just get rid of jones and Barry and I’m good
I mean, I still think 12 needs to go. I don’t see us winning the Super Bowl with him anymore.
Look at how many teams have won a SB with their QB taking up 13%+ of the cap. Their are basically 2 types of teams winning the SB. Build a great roster and pay everyone and have a QB on a rookie deal or have a HOF QB and win 1-2 SB with him. The only outlier is Brady.
Problem is we’ve been doing scenario two for damn near a decade or over and haven’t even gotten into the Super Bowl. At a certain point it’s time to say enough, we haven’t won with 12 and he is not getting younger. We drafted a 1st round QB for a reason. At the end of the day this is a business and I rather we move on now rather than moving on later.
Well Rodgers won a SB but yea I agree.
Yeah. Over a decade ago. Which is why I said “doing scenario two for damn near a decade or over”. Because it’s been that long.
That's my point. By paying a QB a large portion of the cap, you handicap the rest of your team. Peyton - 1 SB with the Colts, went to a loaded Denver team on an extremely cheap deal to get #2. Brees - 1 Favre - 1 Rothlisberger - 2 (one on a rookie deal and one the first year of his 1st big deal when the cap hit was only 6m) Rivers - 0 Ryan - 0 Marino - 0 Rodgers - 0 Eli - 2 ( both wins under 10% of cap) Stafford - 1 Elway - 2 Moon - 0 Tarkenton - 0 Palmer - 0 Besides Brady, those are the top 15 QBs in passing yards overall
Just be prepared for the decades of QB searching and losing games. It’s the most likely scenario, most franchises go through it. We have a HOF guy that’s a year removed from his second MVP in a row. People think Love is just gonna step in and take us there within a couple years. FAVRE to RODGERS is not normal, and we will likely struggle through multiple QBs before we get anything close to them. If we’re lucky and Love is a guy, there is still a likely scenario Rodgers comes back next year and we keep Love for 2024. I don’t understand why people don’t see this is best case scenario.
We’re going to have to make that search eventually though. Keeping Rodgers for one more year to struggle to a 9-8 record is only delaying the inevitable. If anything, it’ll make the FO’s job even harder, because it makes Love much less likely as an option. If this team was in a position to make a legitimate push with Rodgers, then sure. But they aren’t, barring a miracle draft. We’re bleeding talent, and we don’t have the money to keep plugging those holes. Add in that Rodgers is only getting older, and that the proverbial QB cliff could show up at any time, and I’d bet on the wheels falling off before another legit run if we try to run things back yet again with minimal changes. > If we’re lucky and Love is a guy, there is still a likely scenario Rodgers comes back next year and we keep Love for 2024. I don’t understand why people don’t see this is best case scenario. Rodgers’ dead cap hit only gets worse next year, and we’d have to exercise Love’s 5th year option at that point. We’d be devoting a ridiculous amount of money towards a QB room that might end up being terrible. That’s not gonna work. If we’re going to give Love a shot, we have to move on from Rodgers now. The money just isn’t gonna work otherwise.
Wanting Barry and Stenavich gone is reasonable. Wanting Gute gone is pretty reasonable as well. Trading up for Love with Tee Higgins available may very well be the worst draft pick of the past 20 years when you consider that it’s almost time to give Love a contract. So we can’t even save money on him on the off chance that he is a franchise QB. Wanting MLF, 12, and Jones gone is unreasonable at this point.
Wanting Stenavich gone is dumb, he is one of the best o-line coaches in the league and it was his 1st year as OC. You have to give him at minimum 1 more year as OC, and I also don't think he was that bad, our offensive struggles seemed more to be with players struggling rather than any sort of scheme or play calling issues.
Our redzone offense completely fell apart this past year, we spent the first half the season wondering why we weren’t running the ball more, and in general I saw very little creativity or adjustments or planning that would lead me to believe that Stenavich is the best choice for the job. Stenavich is a classic case of promoting someone beyond their level of competence because they were so good at their job that it was the only way to reward them. We don’t have time to let coaches develop, Rodgers is retiring soon. MLF might want to believe he will be around for a decade but when Murphy is gone in 2025, the next president will want to make his mark by bringing in his guys. If MLF hopes to survive that, I think it’s been clear from the beginning that he needs to win with the remaining years he has left with 12. If he can’t do that, and can’t find coaches who can help him, they’re all getting fired.
> So we can’t even save money on him on the off chance that he is a franchise QB. No one in the front office EVER cared about this. That is only something young fans drool over.
If that’s the case then I can’t wait until the FO is all cleared out. It got the Chiefs, Seahawks, and Bengals to the super bowl and made them into FA destinations with cap room to spare.
Look at how many teams have won a SB with their QB taking up 13%+ of the cap. Their are basically 2 types of teams winning the SB. Build a great roster and pay everyone and have a QB on a rookie deal or have a HOF QB and win 1-2 SB with him. The only outlier is Brady.
100% but I think Rodgers is better than Brady
That's not the point. The point is paying QBs big money isn't a recipe for winning a SB. Will it get you long term success and multiple years of making the playoffs? Yes. Will it get you multiple SB? No.
Damn near nobody gets multiple Super Bowls, so I don’t really get what your point is here. Mahomes still only has one. Burrow has none. Allen has none. The list of QBs who have two SB wins is incredibly short. If paying a HoF QB big money is what it takes to win a SB, then it’s a successful strategy. Even if it only wins you one, that’s still worth it.
Pay a HOF qb big money almost guarantees a franchise won't win a SB
Drafting new QBs almost guarantees that you won’t win one either. That’s what happens when only 1/32 teams can win in any given year. You’re gonna have incredibly low odds no matter what you do. It takes a lot of luck to win a SB, and paying your QB maximizes your chances. I don’t see how that should be considered a worse strategy than immediately ejecting a good QB to play the draft lottery again.
Crazy
If someone wants to fire LaFleur, they're simply an idiot. Fandom aside, that's just not a personal without a shred of critical thought capacity.
Right here is the problem man. I agree, MLF should stay and I 100% disagree with any argument otherwise....but that doesn't make the other person an idiot. This mentality is why we get so divided on everything these days. A person coming to a different conclussion is not an idicator of lack of critical thought. Its an idication that they have different inputs and different values.
I can agree with that in most cases, but not this one. If someone wants MLF fired, they've practice zero critical thinking. They've reacted to their own anger. It's simply not possible to actually complete any train of thought about the past four seasons and come to the conclusion that MLF needs to be fired. That is admittedly just my opinion, but I have yet to see it be proven otherwise (someone actually giving a well thought out reasoning that MLF is the problem)
Ok. Just to play devils advocate and eleborate my point, if I am a person that feels the Packers are at a place where the only success measurement is superbowl wins, and I feel the most important factors are coaching and QB play, then I look at the last 4 years as being a failure and as Rodgers has shown he is capable of winning the ring, then I have to blame MLF. Now, again, I dont personally agree. But there are PLENTY of NFL fans out there that attribute the Patriots dynasty to just Bill and Tom. They had a carosel of other assistant coaches, other players, etc, so while I disagree, its not out of the realm of possibility that the success can be pinned to both. The level of critical thinking there may not be as deep in reviewing all the factors as you might do, but again, that may not be due to lack of intellect. It might be a preference to what they believe is important. I personally struggle with this too, please dont take me as preaching my perfection. I just think at times like this when tempers are high, it helps to have an open mind and leave out the "well except in this case". If we can do that with something like sports fandom, it gives me hope that can do it for things with meaningful consequences.
You don't think it's possible La Fleur was propped up the previous 3 seasons by MVP HOF QB play? Isn't it possible that he's been out coached in some big games? We have no way of knowing for sure so of course it's possible, wanting to move on from him is a valid opinion.
Is it possible that his scheme is what led to Rodgers, who came off the two worst years of his career with the exact same offensive lineup, to back to back MVP seasons? We don't know if MLF was a great coach before he came to GB because it was his first gig. We do know Rodgers was regressing and playing nowhere even in the same side of the planet close to his potential, and then he immediately had two of the best years of his career. If you want to factor in only the pieces of information we know for certain, MLF improved this team. By a massive margin. There is no evidence of the contrary. Yet there is a large portion of this fanbase that would rather spin the head coach roulette wheel and think there's a realistic chance we get someone even better. I'm sorry, I cannot come to an outcome/scenario in my mind that those people have the ability of critical thought.
I want to see MLF lead whoever is the next young gun. Need to see what this offense looks like when it's more on schedule, and with a QB more willing to take what's there, instead of forcing the big play. Will it work out? No one knows, anyone claiming otherwise is an idiot.
I agree with your point. I will stand by my original point though. Given what we've seen and what we know, anyone that thinks MLF is the problem and should be fired is just an idiot.
Or was McCarthy that bad and Rodgers and the team would have improved with almost anyone at the helm? Would we have one or two more SB appearances with a coach better than La Fleur? We don't know and never will. You are basing your opinion on the exact same information everyone has so how you've come to the conclusion that your opinion is the only correct one is beyond me.
I hate his persona. He's energyless, soft and doesn't strike me confidence.
Is MLF a good coach? Yes. Is he a great coach? No. Could you get worse by firing him? Yes. Could you get better? Yes. The last 4 seasons have basically ended the same. The team has been outcoached and outplayed in the last game of the season.
There have been 2-4 teams in the entire league that outperformed the Packers for three straight years, and this year we still outperformed more than half the league. The odds of improving by firing the coach that led you to those results are *much, much, much, much, much, much* worse than your odds of improving. Edit: I also worded that poorly. Zero teams outperformed the Packers over the three year span. 2-4 individual teams outperformed them in each individual year, while the Packers outperformed them in the other years. This whole *if we don't win the Superbowl the entire organization is a failure* is one of the most toxic and braindead mindsets I've seen in my entire life.
I mean, that's literally the goal every year. If you're not playing to win the SB why are you out there? What's the saying? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result?
So 31 teams every year are either insane, complete failures, or both? Are you better at everything that you do than anyone else that exists? If not, does that mean you're insane, or you're a complete failure? One team wins the Superbowl. Almost always it's not the same team as last year. Fans expectations for success are so fucking dumb lmao.
>So 31 teams every year are either insane, complete failures, or both? Yes
Okay so I think you're stupid and you think the Packers suck. Glad we've reached the conclusion.
There are 14 teams that make the playoffs. If you make the playoffs you don't suck, but uf you don't win the super bowl the season is a failure. If you don't make the playoffs and are under .500 you suck I'm excited for next year for the Packers
You can’t support the team and tell the team to fire everyone, the packers suck, yadda yadda. Lots of people in this subreddit seem to have a hateboner for how the packers are run. We had an amazing 3 years getting 13 wins each, and had a middle season of 8-9. Let’s chill and reload for next year - which I do fully expect is Rodgers last year
Reload how exactly? With what cap? We gave it a shot the last three years just to come up short and we couldn’t even make the playoffs this season. I don’t want everyone fired, but some changes are needed. We can’t keep the status quo. It’s not good enough.
With draft picks. We’ve gotten great value from Watson and Doubs. This is a year1 team that has great potential to become even better next year. Our super bowl run was the same - we loaded up in the draft the 2 years before and made a run. Gutes drafts before 2022 I thought were pretty awful. We’ve finally made gains in defense and have a pretty complete team for next year. I’m excited for one more year of Rodgers at the helm. Doing badly and getting 8-9 I think it’s great. Multiple 13 win seasons is unsustainable for any team in the league
I’m excited about some of the young players on defense, but I don’t really feel good about the defense as long as Barry is overseeing it.
We were $50M over the cap starting the off-season last year. We are $5M over the cap going into this off-season. Say it with me: the cap is not an issue. There is churn on players every year. Reddit gets mad about every year. If the team wants to sign new players and make “some changes” - they can. We will pay for it down the line - maybe in a big way, maybe in a small way.
When it comes to the upcoming free agency, I hope we do better than signing the corpse of Sammy Watkins.
With ya there. Definitely have some holes to fill and some decisions to make this off-season.
> You can’t support the team and tell the team to fire everyone, the packers suck, yadda yadda. Agreed. Thats not supporting the team. The team makes the decisions, and you decide whether to support the team or not. Saying I want the Packers to win with all different players and coaches and run completely different, isn't supporting the team. Its just wanting to run it yourself.
We don't need changes
Then you must be blind.
What the hell is the point of being a fan of a Team on Reddit if you can't express your opinion no matter how stupid? And why does it matter to you so much how much stupid shit we say? That being said, Fire Barry, trade for Davante Adams, clone Watson, lower ticket prices, schedule more games against the Bears, bring back Brett Favre as a morality coach and let the fans call the plays.
Forgot free beer.
And blackjack & hookers
You know what, forget the team.
We don't want the organization to go bankrupt.
Favre as a Morality coach? Yeah I don’t know about that one
Went too far?
Twitch plays football
Lol "fan of a team on reddit." Also, fire Barry.
There is no point
For me it matters because it's a subreddit I belong to about a team I love to watch and be a fan of. Seeing players I like to watch being trash-talked and people 'losing all faith' in a team due to a down year is a downer for me to read about. And no, I won't stop reading r/GreenBayPackers due to that but I'd love to give people some perspective on the absolute BS they're spouting in hopes they might look at things in a different light. But at the end of the day it's the internet....
>And no, I won't stop reading > >r/GreenBayPackers > > due to that but I'd love to give people some perspective on the absolute BS they're spouting in hopes they might look at things in a different light. So your main motivation for staying on this board is offer different perspective to people, and yet you can't fathom to read a different perspective other than your own? Or at least you only see your own perspective as the correct one and see any other perspective as one which must be changed to your perspective?
I don't mind different perspective. I mind when people go wholesale doomsayer. You wanna fire the whole front office? You want to replace everything but the Oline? People are talking like we're the worst team in the NFL. That's the Chicago Bears...who are in our division.
Honestly, I don't see much of that, but I'm sure full blown doomerism can indeed be found on this board. I think I see as much if not more sub-loathing ("this sub sux lolol" "this sub is sooo toxic!") and "toxic positivity" posts than doomer-posts. Successful engineers, CEOs, investors never rest on their laurels. Even during record successes they are always trouble shooting and looking for ways to improve. Some people have brains that are more engaged by critique problem-seeking. Now I'm not saying everyone on here who critiques the team is a CEO sigma grindsetter. But to problem solve, you have to be someone who looks for problems. You don't have to answer these but these are the types of questions I would pose to cheerleaders on this board: What went wrong this season and why? Can we fix it? What did the front office do well? How could it have done better?
> What went wrong this season and why? As fans we don't know the behind the scenes details. > Can we fix it? We don't have control over decisions. Further what is "fixed"? What is the goal? > What did the front office do well? As fans we don't know the behind the scenes details. We aren't privy to enough information to have intelligent thoughts. > How could it have done better? As fans we don't know the behind the scenes details for why they made the decisions they made. And thus don't even know what other choices there were to be made or what implications they had.
So you literally have no thoughts or opinions on this season? Like what? We went from 13-3 last year to 8-9 this year. You don't think its possible or permissible for a fan to even consider how this occurred?
This is embarrassing homer whining, I would delete this if I were you
LOL. No thank you but I value your opinion on my thoughts.
Right there with you. Its all so over the top. Also, do the people calling for a complete tear down realize that if that actually happened then we would probably have several seasons in a row where we would suck. Do they take that into consideration? Nope. Its like a complete tear down will magically fix everything. I mean, if they are sooooo smart when it comes to managing a NFL team, then maybe they need to look at a career change because obviously they know way more about it than the people that have been doing it their entire lives. :rolling\_eyes:
can we please stop the "can we please stop having opinions that are not mine" posts
I love all of these sanctimonious posts that try to nullify any criticism directed at the team. Gutekunst has work to do to get below the salary cap, they’ve got a lot of free agents, and we won’t know what’s going to happen with Rodgers for a while. This team is not in a good place right now.
Is it over reacting to say we should have at least one more super bowl over the last decade and a half of heartbreak and despair
Just give up man. This happens literally every year after a loss and it's not a battle worth fighting. As soon as the Packers win a game next season everyone will be praising everybody. It's just the way it is and I've given up trying to get people to be level headed on the internet.
30 years with 2 NFL HoF QBs, roughly 5 decent years of top 10 Defenses. Pretty much never had a Special Teams worth a damn. Results? 2 SB wins in 3 appearances. Meanwhile Brady does more while having fairly solid defense for most of his career, Special teams rarely costed him a game (at least not that I can think of). It's painful to watch the FO fuck things up so bad while a 6th Rounder will go down as the Goat, when we had the one with the most potential. No disrespect to Brady for what he accomplished, but God damn, if we had cleaned up the issues I mentioned before more regularly, we would have more SB titles. I truly love the team, and always will support it. It just breaks my heart that we never created a true dynasty when Qb is arguably the center piece and we spent too much fucking around with Best Available Drafting which led to a lot of wasted opportunities / busts.
Fairly solid is a little misleading. I am pretty sure Brady has only had sub-Top 10 defenses twice in his entire career. The front office failed Rodgers.
Your assessment of Brady’s special teams units is an understatement. Belichek’s special teams units are the definition of ELITE.
I don’t think you give Brady enough credit. QB play is so much more than talent. His passer rating in the playoffs is better than his regular season. It’s weird seeing that goofy baby giraffe out there but the dood is fierce and the moment doesn’t make him flinch. Brady has more than 3x the playoff games and yet three of Rodgers playoff games, including 2 in NFC Championship games, Rodgers has a worse rating than any of Brady’s. I agree his defenses have sucked. The one year he had a great one he needed it in an epically bad NFC Championship game against the Bears and they got past it and won the Super Bowl. I think the defense bailed them out against Philly that year too. That Bears game, and the Bears win and in game to end the season, was worse than any of Brady’s three seasons worth of playoff games. They needed a pick 6 by BJ Raji to beat Caleb Freaking Hanie. If Rodgers (and special teams) don’t screw the pooch they beat Seattle too. Point is, watching Rodgers you KNOW he’s better than Brady. Except when it’s elimination time. That dude gets it done.
15 years starting perhaps the best pure passer...ever. One Super Bowl. I'm ok with overreacting right now. The results are hard to defend.
[удалено]
Rodgers would have 10 superbowls if your mother gave him dome
You're not wrong
Exactly, do not overreact. Never change, run it back, and remember we are the unequaled Green Bay Packers. Wy do Packer fans always forget to R E L A X? Just look at all those Super Bowls the team has been to since Aaron uttered that famous line back in 2012. So fans just need to sit back and get ready to enjoy more of the same in 2023. How can you not be excited for what is to come?
> Exactly, do not overreact. *proceeds to overreact*
The great thing about reddit is absolutely none of this matters. The hot takes are ridiculous but like you said no one from the org is looking at these dumb posts. Flip side -telling the sub they should be positive is equally pointless. No one outside of reddit cares about what's said on reddit.
I would say it goes both ways. What kind of dictatorship would this subreddit be if you couldn't be critical of the Packers? Also, please stop trying to hang hats on 13 win seasons if it doesn't amount to anything. The regular season doesn't mean a thing.
>Also, please stop trying to hang hats on 13 win seasons if it doesn't amount to anything. The regular season doesn't mean a thing. First 13 win season w/ lafleur: Wow that is incredible! We got blown out in the NFCCG but what a turnaround, excited for the future! Second 13 win season: Aw man this is incredible!....and then that choke job in the NFCCCG really stings. Kinda puts a damper on an MVP season and all that regular season success Third 13 win season: Wow, another MVP season, surely THIS is the year we get over the hump....how can a merciful god allow this to happen
> Also, please stop trying to hang hats on 13 win seasons if it doesn't amount to anything. The regular season doesn't mean a thing. Do you only watch for the off chance that some year you get to brag to another teams fan that your team won? Or do you only tune in for playoff games or something? Thats how I treat the Bucks but I also don't go complaining on that sub that Middleton makes like 20 fucking million.
Oh look, this post again.
In reality the team is nowhere near competing for a championship,changes need to be made
Coming from someone who's got three bellies and hasn't ran a day in his life. Pipe down big boy.
I wonder how the Packers sub is doing. Oh boy. *Slowly backs away*
I don't think I'm overreacting. Here is my logic. Mark Murphy is the president of the org. Buck stops there. He was slow to address the Ted Thompson issue when Ted's health was declining and work as a GM wasn't going well. Ted's last several draft years were really not good. Mark Murphy was slow to deal with McCarthy as coach. Probably due deferral to Ted who was in significant decline. Mark has done really well on the business side of the Org with Titletown. Really well. Football side, not so much. So Ted steps down or is forced down. Gutey takes over and immediately pisses off his future HOF QB by trading up to take a QB in the first round. Doesn't fix the need for receivers, but drafts a QB. With new coaching, team goes 13-3, loses in the NFC championship game. Ok, good, fix the holes and go after a Superbowl, right? Gutey says no. Does not fix the receiving holes. Doesn't address special teams. Does what he wants which no one understands and even fewer agree with. So team goes 13-3 again and loses in the NFC championship game. Tampa Bay went all in with their HOF QB and wins the Superbowl. Mark Murphy does nothing that anyone knows about. So, year 3 has Rams going all in with a veteran QB. Pack is gonna do that for sure!!! Gutey says awe fuck no. Stops a special teams coach hire because it's too expensive despite that being a big need for years. Address the receiver issue? Awe hell no. Piss off the best receiver in the league? Awe hell yeah!! Team goes 13-3 and loses in the playoffs. Mark Murphy did nothing, Gutey has no known plan, the #1 receiver is pissed off and special teams operated like a peewee league. Oh yeah, Rams went all in and won the Superbowl. Finally, for this past season, we have no #1 receiver. They finally can get a special teams coach but still all in on Amari Rogers. So Gutey has no choice but to finally draft receivers. But signs only one veteran receiver that hasn't played a complete season in years. Your HOF QB is like WTF and doing hallucinogens to try to make since of Gutey's work. Finally, after total undeniable failure, Amari Rogers finally gets cut. Special Teams with a good coach starts doing better. Offense is dogshit. Defense looks like a step up from a peewee league. The second half of the season had really only special teams doing anything. Defense looked good against what? Teams that suck worse than the Pack. So, Mark moved Gutey to GM, Gutey is handed a HOF QB, and...does exactly fuck all. For 4 years in a row. The business side, they have done very well. The football side is an absolute failure. 3 years of 13-3 regular season and absolutely doing jack shit to address their glaring issues. Mark Murphy and the team he put in place have wasted so many years of having a HOF QB and HOF recovers in Jordy, Adams, etc. So yeah, I honestly don't think I'm overreacting.
It's fun to bitch. Sheesh people
Man, I am old enough to vaguely remember Lynn Dickey in 85, and the Majik Man really coming into his own a few years after him.. we had some horrible years mid to late 80s, and 89 was a vivid year for me as we exploded from a 4 win season to a 10 win season. Teams have ups and downs, but we are spoiled. We haven't had a losing season in a long time, and although we can be critical I don't think it's good to tear down our own team, we shouldn't be fair weather fans.
The biggest overreaction is that Rodgers is washed. Back to back reigning MVP loses the best WR in the league and fractures his thumb on his THROWING HAND and all of sudden it’s time for the new era. If you want to criticize his lack of commitment, that’s one thing. Talent wise, he could play for at least 5 more years at a top 5 level.
Yeah, anyone who says that is either blackout drunk, or making everyone around them wish they were.
You're overreacting
This season was a failure, we are on borrowed time with Rodgers, and our Super Bowl window is just about closed. I get peoples frustrations, and I understand that some people sound like they are overreacting. However, their 'overreactions' might be what they think is genuinely best for the franchise to get them to the point where they are consistent winners again. Some people feel more drastic steps should be taken than others. So I guess what would you do this offseason if you had the ability to make changes if any? *edit for typo
Good times create weak men.
We've been trying to do the same thing over and over again for the past few years now and it has not worked. Thinking nothing needs to change and that we can just run it back again next year with different results is delusional, at best. I wish some of you would stop UNDER-reacting.
At the end or the day, people are going to fan however they want. Don’t let it affect how you are as a fan. If you see a stupid take, downvote and move on.
There are underlying issues and trends that have not changed in the past 4 years. This team can't fight back when it gets punched in the mouth and that is indicative of overall leadership and philosophy. There are 7 (8?) First round picks on the defensive side of the ball and the defense has been bottom half of the league every year. You can luck your way into a 13 win season, look at the Minnesota Vikings
Hi - this is Reddit. What is it you think people are doing here?
guys, why over react on the internet when you could just take out your frustration and lost bet money on your children?
I agree we should not overreact but tell me under what logic should Joe Barry be retained? He cost us this season and next season isn’t going to result in a Super Bowl so he should be the first to go
The defense is not good enough to win a championship. The investment in players has been significant. The coaching is lacking. It’s not an overreaction to think a change at coordinator is pertinent. Wanting Rodgers gone is debatable. I personally am ready for the team to move on/Rodgers retire but understand if neither of those happen. Wanting Gute/MLF gone is overreacting.
Overreaction or not this organization is who they are. Whether it was under TT or Murphy Or whoever comes after him. This organization will make a right decision, but not until excepting mediocre results for long long time. Lets just ride on go pack go
This is a big problem I have with our fans right now. If people say they want some changes. Then you’re labeled a bad fan, overreacting, and negative. If you say, I support this team! Rodgers forever! MLF forever etc. then you’re labeled a shill. We can be both. We can look at what’s happened since MLF has taken over and be both happy and disappointed. And that doesn’t make you a bad fan.
I’m with you except I think Joe Barry needs to go
You must be new here
Hey, can we have a thread where everyone reveals how young they are, please? Half these users weren't sentient for the crappy end days of Favre, let alone Majik Man. “Let’s get rid of our three or so best players and our historically great young coach and just replace them with better options. I don’t get what’s so unreasonable about that!”
New to Reddit?
yes the sky isn't falling but how many games did it take to incorporate Jones more heavily? If we didn't make a ruckus would Joe Barry have ever play more Cover 2 and Cover 6? What I'm saying is, we do have an impact by the way of our public press conferences. We the fans matter
Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Thank you
Nothing will change with our defense. We will finish 18th at best and 26th at worst and pretend like it isn't a problem while we spend 1st draft pick after 1st round draft pick. Something major has to change because it has been this way for years.
NO!
One thing I hear a lot of here is that a lot of the sub is too young to have known anything other than Rodgers, and they're actually more Rodgers fans than Packers fans. That could be true for some people, but I think a truer statement is that a lot of the sub is too young to have known anything other than Brady. People look at Brady, playing at an insanely high level into his 40s, winning or at least playing in most of the super bowls from the past decade and a half, and think that's normal for a generational talented QB. Mahomes' success, recently, appears to confirm that. Let me be clear: what Brady has accomplished is an outlier in every way, shape, and form. That type of sustained success should be impossible in a league as competitive as the NFL. It's totally skewed expectations for a lot of younger Packers fans who think "We have a generational QB, why aren't we playing in the championship every year?"
Brady won his last 2 super bowls with the patriots because the patriots went all-in. He left the patriots because they had to pay for going all-in and the tank was dry. He left to go to a stacked team missing only a qb. And he also got gronk to unretire and was completely scrupleless in recruiting Antonio Brown. A hall of famer level wr was their 3rd or 4th option. Brady has always had a solid o-line (until this season)and a reliable safety valve receiver. He has no problem recruiting people to come. Meanwhile, the Packers o-line has had constant issues for our playoff runs and Watson was the first good wide receiver we drafted after Tae. We also can’t attract stars to come here, not even JJ Watt. And of course we were using first picks on a backup QB when the Patriots were breaking their hard rules of drafting by taking a running back and wide receiver in the first for one last ride with Brady. Brady is a great QB but he had a lot of help. Help we didn’t give Rodgers
Rodgers has a higher QBR and PR than Brady in the playoffs, including in the 4th quarter. He has better tape and highlight reels in the playoffs too. Brady has won 4 superbowls below or just above Rodger's QBR in the 49ers playoff loss last year in horrible snowy weather. Not many people would disagree that by almost every metric Rodgers is superior to Brady at the position of QB. The difference is Brady has had better ranked defenses and special teams in the playoffs, and its not even close. This more than anything is what separates the careers of Brady and Rodgers. The Patriots division, luck and their front office/coaching also heavily contribute to the "success" of the two QBs. Honestly, people need to actually watch tape of Brady in general and in the playoffs. Especially early on his career. Those defenses won the superbowls and Brady was mostly a game manager. Edit: fixed word usage
I've been watching Brady win in the playoffs his entire career. It certainly helps a team when the QB takes team friendly deals so they can build up other areas, and that's always been part of Brady's secret sauce
We didn't give Rodgers any help in 2011? 2014? Whooosh...
The sub being young is a great point. I'm not 'old' per-se but I did get a lot of years of sub .500 teams so it's not out of hand for it to happen for me.
Exactly - young fans probably started their list of Packers memories with Rodgers winning in 2010 and haven't really known anything other than routine success
You can both love something and find ways to make it better, especially when it is a 10-figure industry. Calling out shit decisions is necessary
Firstly you can't use "before 92", pretty sure 95% of the team wasn't even born yet. You also can't use it because who cares? Yes they were bad before 92, what's your point? 30 years later what we can't be upset about blowing a season? A defense that can't seem to ever get better? A quarterback who spends more time trolling fans and sportswriters with funky haircuts and being weird (and I'm not talking about rona). And you're right the three seasons before we had 13 wins. We also didn't make the super bowl each of those seasons and without looking I'm pretty sure we got bounced in the first or second round. We keep hearing about all this talent and how awesome this team is but can't seem to do anything about it. I'd be loaded if I had a dollar for every time I saw a packer defenseman stand still with his arms out and looking like he was waiting for the offensive player to run into his arms for a tackle.
Fucking people and hair cuts. A hair cut is trolling people now? It's pretty clear why all the worst takes are typed on the internet.
Man, don't bite my head off I'm just telling you what I've read and seen. Shit when people started posting how he had his 2010 haircut and to book tickets to the super bowl..and you can't tell me he had that cut in a serious manner he looked like a complete idiot haha
You didn't specify in your comment that this is was what you read. Your words are "A quarterback who spends more time trolling fans and sportswriters with funky haircuts". Reminds me of all the blue hairs of Wisconsin. Did you see that guys haircut? How did they get a job?
You can support your team while still realizing that changes need to be made. Being a fan doesn't require you to blind yourself to the shortcomings of your team.
Subreddits are for overreacting day-to-day, game-to-game, etc. Remember, just two weeks ago the defense had it all figured out, and the offense was lethal.
It's very weird to start your "stop overreacting" post with "Look - we were good last year". The other 3 teams in the north have gotten better. We've stagnated then got worse. Our HoF QB is likely to leave soon. We have one pro bowler this year. One. On a team that was supposed to be a Contender. I'm not saying the sky is falling but I'm also not overreacting. It's just the truth. This team is worse, we're not the best in the division anymore and things are going to get worse before they get better.
No, overreacting is what fans do. It's kind of in our job description
I see lots of wanting 12 gone....as if getting another hall of fame qb is easy
We’re three days into the offseason. This is the time for overreaction. In general though this sub tends to be less reactionary than other places on the internet (Facebook, Twitter, etc.) so typically opinions that get upvoted here are fairly popular and coming from mostly level-headed fans. Not to say we don’t have our fair share of biases and groupthink going on. I just think it’s perfectly reasonable to criticize coaches and players given what a dog shit season it was. Obviously no one here thinks we need to fire everyone, but changes clearly need to be made. Yes, we have been a successful organization for the past few decades, but that doesn’t mean shit right now. You can support your team and also have opinions. It’s not a crime.
Personally I don't think firing/demoting some coordinators should be out of the question. At the bare minimum Matt Lafleur could even use losing his job as motivation for Barry to run the defense like it should be run. There's absolutely zero excuse why this shouldn't be an elite defense. What is it, like 7 former 1st round picks on this defense? And as for stenavich, I loved him as an OL coach, but he's not an OC. This offense is not performing up to its potential. Of course there could be a lot of reasons why, but it's something to look at. Howeever I still think I would prefer stenavich at OC as opposed to the Jets OC that got fired
FUCKING AMEN!!!!
I think the issue is this team has a lot of compounding problems that are still around. Before I start, this isn’t a shit on Rodgers comment and hopefully I can be objective. 1) Though we had two 13 win seasons, we got out played in crucial games offensively by the likes of Old Man Tom Brady and the Buccaneers and Jimmy G led 49ers. Add in the Geoff led Lions now. Rodgers it seems the past 4 seasons or so has really struggled when met with adversity and while the team is trailing. He finished 15th this season in passer ratings. The stats for the Lions game would have been achievable by any young QB. Yes our WR are young and inexperienced , but this could’ve helped along by Rodgers participating in offseason workouts. All the current star QBs have spent time in the offseason working such as Mahomes, Allan, Brady, Burrow, Herbert, Hurts. You can complain in one hand that WR are an issue while not doing everything you can to help them. Yes, Rodgers was hurt with the thumb and ribs. That being said if your QB is struggling because of injury then sit him! Before our 3 win streak things couldn’t have gotten worse letting Love start while Rodgers healed. Hell two or three weeks of healing we may have had Rodgers back and healthy. 2) Coaching, coaching, and coaching. Again though MLF has had two miraculous seasons leading up to 2022, we really have no true idea how good he really is. When you inherit a HoF QB and a player roster with some of the very best in the game like Adams or Bakhtiari things become muddled. We do know Rodgers had a hybrid playbook the first year MLF joined. And we know Rodgers changes plays frequently. I think if Rodgers retires we will truly find out if MLF is indeed the genius play maker or mediocre. MLF play calling at times has been both great and wtf. Ex. NFCC game against the 49ers had some terrible play calling that cost us a trip to the big game. We heard all season that we needed to run the ball more from MLF, yet every week it rarely materialized. Then end of post game interviews, he would give the same excuse. Secondly if the WR are an issue 16 weeks later etc, then what are they doing in practice to fix them. We have seen a lot of complaints in this Sub about WR running incorrect routes. MLF should be working them extra hard to get up to speed. MLF needs to stop saying we will be better at this, when he should be chewing out the rest of his coaching staff for failure to do their jobs. Piss poor coaching should not be acceptable in his eyes. Yes he’s more of an offensive guy, but letting coaches under him like Pettine and Barry to constantly underperform with their BS play calling is not okay. Our Roster is too damn talented. Good point was Jaire not shadowing every top WR each game. Or the fact that most of the early season games the secondary wasn’t following the QBs tells. It was later pointed out post Vikings game that our secondary started following the QBs eyes and was able to pick routes or break up passes with no issue. Furthermore MLF held onto a bad special teams coordinator for too long that was costing us games. He didn’t pull the plug sooner on Amari Rodgers that was terrible at ball control or yards after a punt/kickoff. If memory serves we were rated near bottom in the league for this. MLF failing to sit Rodgers when he was hurt was a failure on coaching staff. Yea Rodgers gave us the best chance to win games. At the time we started racking up losses it couldn’t have gotten any worse sitting him for Love. Sure we can now say Rodgers took us on a win streak, but whose to say we don’t win some of those closer loses with Love. 3) As far as our players are concerned. We have a talented group of guys. Sure some are duds, but there is far too much talent to having this many issues. Team needs to stop succumbing to the need to keep guys for moral or team culture purposes. Focus should be to field the best 53-man roster you can cobble together at every position. Ultimately these few things need to happen for 2023. - If Barry isn’t let go, then MLF’s fate should be attached to Barry’s performance. - MLF fate should be decided after a season with Rodgers gone if the above doesn’t happen. We truly need to see a true MLF offense that doesn’t have a Rodgers crutch. - Mediocre play should not be tolerated. Not when there are tons of players that go undrafted/free agent are just as hungry for their chance to prove themselves. This is the Green Bay Packers, one of the longest teams to play the game with a rich heritage. This team has inspired youth for decades to chase excellence in football. The team that won the first super bowls led by Lombardi, Starr, and Nitschke. A team that pulled themselves out of purgatory with Holmgren, Favre, and White. As a fan base we have been spoiled for the last 30 years. But at the same time we have had some miraculous teams in between Super Bowl wins that fell short for dumb reasons. We all love this team otherwise we wouldn’t be here. It’s fine to criticize something you love when you’ve been invested in it for decades, years, or months with purchases of swag, season tickets, and worthless stock options that are priceless in our eyes. Packers will always be special.
Toxic Positivity perceives criticism and analysis in a simplistic and moral fashion. Any commentary other than cheerleading and compliments is too often seen as "negative", "bad" , "cranky" etc. Some people like to cheerlead. Some people like to analyze, critique, bemoan, commiserate or bitch. We're all people. We're all fans. We're all different. People experience things differently, people behave and react differently.
Great post. We are a blessed franchise. Defensive schemes do have to improve though. Still have no idea why Barry had our guys drop into a zone on 4th and 1 with the game on the line in the red zone. It’s an obvious man press situation.
We have no money to get better. We went all in years ago. It’s not negativity it’s realistic
Have you ever seen a game thread here? Of course the general mood of the sub is a fucking abhorrent overreaction with the type of people here. The fucking game threads are literally filled with the highest of highs and lowest of lows within plays of each other. I don't really have any other reference points, and I'm sure some NFL fanbase subs are similar... but this one is just insane to me. You wouldn't know if the Packers were up 30-13 or losing 13-30... because the comments are always so dramatic. No one is seemingly happy EVER. Even positive comments have a tinge of gloom to them. "Scored the touchdown, but did you see Dillon missed the block". Who.the.fuck.cares. They scored.
I mean there’s valid complaints, but yeah as a community we complain way too much. The organization isn’t listing to us, they aren’t contemplating our input. It really doesn’t matter because they’re gonna do whatever they want to do. And it’s not that you shouldn’t give your opinions, some of its valid, but my real issue is that people take it waaaay too seriously. People are acting like Joe Barry murdered their kids. Or that the world is gonna end if we don’t do whatever the fuck fan idea is popular at the time. This sub gets way too circle-jerky some times
I think we'll be in playoff contention until Rodgers retires as he's always going to give us competence at the QB position. The issue that will keep us from competing for a Super Bowl is that his cap hit is that of an elite QB. We're paying elite money for what will likely be top-10 to top-15 production from here on out. The rest of our roster already needs to be outstanding to compete for a title without an elite QB, and we're behind the 8-ball because we're giving Rodgers elite-QB money. Don't get me wrong...I really like Rodgers, and I love watching him play. It's just difficult to know that the team's ceiling is likely capped until he retires or takes a huge pay cut to allow us to acquire additional talent.
THANK YOU for saying this. The amount of people I’ve heard saying “fire MLF” is disgusting. I swear people are just looking to instigate bc if you’ve watched the packers for more than a season you’d know that firing him is a stupid fucking idea.
I recommend anyone who is sane, just stay away from this subreddit until the draft. We have going to see more ridiculous and dumb takes until people settle down. It was a tough season, but we don't need to blow everything up.
This team was a few plays away from being a 10 win team. Sometimes when it rains, it pours. Sometimes when you think that the Packers' defense will be good enough to keep them in the games while the offense figures its shit out, you lose 5 games in a row. Next year will be better.
Fire LaFleur
It’s the off-season. What else are we supposed to do?
Anything less than a Super Bowl victory every season should be considered a failure, and fans have every right to complain if the team doesn’t achieve that.
When you have a QB like Rodgers I completely agree with you.
Thank you. Every coach and front office person on the team drills into the heads of every player every year that “this is called Titletown for a reason and this franchise expects a trophy every season”. The fans should have the same expectations. I can’t believe how most fans are content with just *contending* and saying that we shouldn’t act spoiled.
I’ve just gotten very annoying with this fan base. And that’s not just on here. Wether it’s podcasts, radio shows, YouTube, Facebook or in person. This fan base has become so split between the fire everyone/trade everyone group. And the everything is fine group.
Most of it is the young generation brainwashed by tv sports media, online social media, fantasy football, etc. Individual players have been pushed to the forefront over the team as a whole and the NFL (and franchises) have taken advantage of that to make more money. Football is now more about superstar players more than anything else and it has ruined the game
The copium is strong on this sub.
Move the franchise, Oklahoma City Packers, San Antonio Los Packers…the world is ending with this lost season, Rodgers is the worst, burn it all down…
Out of touch. Clean house. Including 12
If anything people are under reacting. The fan base should expect even more, and consistently only has the bar of "we made the playoffs/beat the Vikes so hurray." We had the best quarterback in the league for how many years? How many of those years were we competitive against the top teams? Not even beat them, shit happens after all, but simply play as if we were capable of beating them. Instead the fan base will just reward mediocrity again next season regardless of what happens.
Barry should be fired and Matt should be on the hot seat. He been out coached too many times.
You’re making too much sense for the internet my friend.
These threads are just as annoying as the overreacting. This season was fucking pitiful…..
Jordan Love.
This is what happens when you get spoiled for 3 decades and have 2 generations that only know not making the playoffs a hand full of times smh…
Sometimes this really becomes entitled town. There’s probably 27ish teams that would be dying to trade results with the packers. It’s incredibly difficult to win a super bowl, almost everything needs to go right for you, and most times the year after that team sucks. Need as many trips to the playoffs as possible to try and get that lottery ticket. Spare me with the fire lafluer, send Rodgers into the sun takes. 80% of the team will be the same next year and we’ll be better off than 75% of all teams
Why are we keeping 39 year old qb? It's about time to react. No one is overreacting.