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Lessland


Able-Tradition-2139

Roughlyaboutthesameland


ruinawish

Extract: > A group of Moreland residents is fighting the move to change the municipality’s name to remove a connection to slavery, arguing the decision was presented as a fait accompli and the community was not consulted. > A petition signed by more than 1400 people will be tabled at Moreland Council’s meeting on Wednesday night, demanding it revisit the consultation process for renaming the municipality. Residents will also meet with Minister for Local Government Melissa Horne to lobby for a reversal of the decision based on what they say was a lack of consultation. > ... > Postal surveys were circulated to residents of Moreland in May and June with three name options. > The council landed on Merri-bek – the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung word for ‘rocky country’ – after 59 per cent (3739) of all survey responses (6315) supported the name. According to the council, there was 22 per cent support for ‘Jerrang’, 13 per cent support for ‘Wa-dam-buk’, while only six per cent preferred no name change. > But some residents have since pushed back on the decision, claiming the move to change the name was presented as a fait accompli, with surveys only offering options to choose from three pre-determined names. > Those who had voted against a new name had done so by writing dissenting comments on their survey paper. > Resident Ray Pastoors said that option had not been publicised by the council. > “I’m conflicted because I’m progressive. I don’t want it to be seen as me being against First Nations,” he said. “But at the end of the day ... if you don’t involve the community ... in such a big change, you’ll have a community that’s divided.” > Peta Slattery, a ratepayer and resident of Brunswick for eight years, said most of the signatories to the petition were concerned about a lack of transparency or ability to air concerns. > “It’s interesting, even on social media if you up speak out about this you are instantly shut down as a racist,” she said.


Revanchist99

Wow, talk about not liking democracy when it doesn't work for you.


Fidelius90

~~Well for the purposes of “democracy” it sounds like there should have been a 4th “I don’t want it to be changed” option.~~ edit: I somehow missed the part in the article that said 6% DID vote for no name change. So there must have been a fourth option. Not that I don’t agree with the premise of changing the name!


Quom

Edit. I did misread! There was no option for 'no name change'. people wrote it in. I don't want to just delete the comment because it might save people making the same mistake I did.


aseriousplate

There was no 'no name change' option, and it still got 13%.


o2o1o7

article says 13% Wa-dam-bak, 6% no change


[deleted]

How is this shit upvoted. It is in the article. It got six percent. You’re spreading misinformation.


jimRickey

2% of moreland residents voted yes for merribek, and only 3% in total took part in the pissy survey online - now thats democracy


aldkGoodAussieName

Except they were given 3 options. There was not an option for keep the name and not an option to make a suggestion. Not really democracy if they initially like any of the 3 choices offered. Nothing to do with the language.


Novel_Interaction203

They popped up on local boards and residents were having none of it, especially as they wouldn’t identify themselves. Ironic as they were complaining about secrecy


genwhy

Why do you want private individuals you don't like to dox themselves online? So you can send emails to their employers?


ObsidianG

Read again. They made RIGGED surveys. Nothing like killing democracy when it's Autocracy.


Common-Courtesy-

It wasn't rigged at all. What are you on about.


ObsidianG

The postal surveys did NOT contain an option for "no change". The 6% in favor of "no change" was manual write-ins.


Common-Courtesy-

The survey wasn't about change or no change, the survey was about choosing which one of the 3 names the residents preferred.


replacement_username

So they didn't even vote to change the name or not, just decided we are and here are your three choices? And the said we are changing names to the one that got the most votes?


Common-Courtesy-

The Councillors voted to change the name on their populations behalf, that's how democracies work.


aldkGoodAussieName

If that's the case, why ask what name people prefer?


Common-Courtesy-

Look it up on the Council website, you can learn all about the process there.


[deleted]

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Common-Courtesy-

Anybody that wanted to voice their opinion could have done so at the regular council meetings. Not sure what country you're from, but I suggest reading up on representative democracies which will give you some insight into how decisions are made in Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy And specific info on how councils are elected in Victoria: https://www.vec.vic.gov.au/voting/types-of-elections/local-council-elections


[deleted]

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Common-Courtesy-

>That doesn't mean they couldn't have or at least attempted to have greater community engagement. They did. Why are you arguing about something you have 0 knowledge on?


darkhummus

Do you think councils do a referendum for every single decision they make? Disconnecting from slavery shouldn't really be up for discussion.


doot_1T

So.. you're alright with Moreland retaining a name linked to the slave trade?


Reformedsparsip

Seems better than spending masses of cash on covering that up when they are struggling to pay their garbage collectors.


Harambo_No5

Just curious; how many degrees of separation from slave trade is enough for it not to be cancelled?


theartistduring

It was literally one degree. Moreland was actually named for Moreland sugar plantation. It wasn't some random ancestor's name. It is where slaves were worked and raped and beaten. Where children and babies separated from their parents and sold. It isn't an unfortunate happenstance that it is named Moreland. It isn't named after a person. It is a place. [Moreland Sugar Plantation](https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/shocked-melbourne-council-to-change-name-after-discovering-slavery-link-20211124-p59bsz.html)


Harambo_No5

Ok, fair enough. Sounded like the guy named it after his grandfathers farm. But if people are offended by that, then it’s reasonable to change the name. It won’t change the past but it’ll help us forget.


theartistduring

It wasn't 'a farm'. Don't try to minimise what it was to make it seem innocuous. And it isn't about forgetting. It is about not honouring a place or people that engaged in these evil and inhumane parts of history. We don't name things after after slave plantations, concentraction camps or other sites of atrocities against other people. Everyone should be offended by it. It isn't 'woke' or whatever people want to call it to not want to be live in an area named after the slave trade.


king_norbit

As if anyone even new or cared about this at all before. Make no mistake, this is bureaucracy for the sake of itself. An exercise of back pattery by some self righteous douchebags. I'd prefer them to spend money and effort on something more useful than this.....


[deleted]

Yeah it's incredible they dedicate so much time and effort on something small like this when we're still an incredibly racist country with a tonne of work to do. Priorities.


ObsidianG

Yes^(\*).


[deleted]

Is it actually named directly after the slaver, or is it just a coincidental connection?


ruinawish

> Scotsman Farquhar McCrae arrived in Melbourne in 1839 and named land from Moonee Ponds Creek to Sydney Road after the Jamaican sugar plantation his family owned. > The plantation had as many as 700 slaves at any one time in the decades after it was founded in the 1780s. Dr McCrae used the Moreland name six years after Britain made slavery illegal in 1833. https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/shocked-melbourne-council-to-change-name-after-discovering-slavery-link-20211124-p59bsz.html


opinion91966

Which I believe was named after an area is Scotland. Anyway I can't believe anyone has a die on a hill attachment to the name Moreland. Its a council name, like who cares. Naming for original custodians seems logical and a small part of reconciliation. I am guessing (hoping its not racists!) it's more to do with lack of consultation, ie survey only had a 3% response rate (if all residents received a form) and tbh probably more the cost side of things of rebranding.


Winnie_Reds

I want Shire of Sherbrooke back.


snowblocker

Loved that lyrebird logo


tallmansnapolean

I couldn’t give a fuck what they call it or what it’s currently called. I just want my rates to stop going up.


Superannuatedpunk

Rates are set as a percentage of property value. The Woke Mob are not raising your rates.


gibe_monies

They are wasting your money tho


Superannuatedpunk

I give them my personal blessing to use my money for the name change, and to use whatever is left over to commission a blind lesbian artist to do a painting in her menstrual blood titled “Period Drama”


steven_quarterbrain

How do you think the $500,000+ is paid for?


bundypolkhigh

Gonna be a lot more than that


[deleted]

Lmao $500k is just gonna be the process of agreeing on a name. It'll be a tonne more expensive when they have to update everything that has Moreland Council on it.


pantsoverpants

Not really. They'll phase in the new name as they replace old things. Companies do it often enough.


QuickMight

Companies do that sure. They are usually pragmatic when it comes to expenditure and cost benefit. But government…. doesn’t have the same kind of accountability structures. Their highest priority is not profit/cost, it’s image.


stumpytoes

Shit like this is why they keep going up. Nothing sexy about roads, rates and rubbish. The time and money wasted by idiot councils thinking they are the UN must be massive.


Superannuatedpunk

Rates go up because property values go up chief.


stumpytoes

Chief...


opinion91966

No, property values are used to calculate the proportion of the rates, not the other way round. The do their budget figure how much money they need then use property value to break that down to individual level.


mr-snrub-

Nah it keeps going up cause the property values are going up.


olly128

Councils are a waste of time. Fix the roads and pick up my rubbish. Melbourne should investigate amalgamations like QLD.


Michael_je123

We already did that, in 1993 or so. It's why Moreland exists


vacri

Maybe we should instead get the Wurundjeri word for 'asphalt country' instead of 'rocky country'? A nod to the indigenous while also a description of the current?


Moo_Kau

what about a translation of the phrase 'annoying white cunts'? :D


MartPuppin

The translation for 'white cunt' from where I come from is "Migaloo" 🤣 (if I remember correctly)


cavtekkkkk

How about annoying black and white cunts for equality


[deleted]

Not seen anyone indigenous behind this movement.


Able-Tradition-2139

It was done in consultation with the Wurundjeri Land Council. Elder Uncle Andrew Gardiner played a huge role. From an ABC article: The Wurundjeri Cultural Aboriginal Heritage Council was tasked with selecting three words in Woi-wurrung language for residents to choose from. Elder Uncle Tony Garvey says it's a meaningful act of reconciliation from the council. "It means a lot, the Moreland City Council has always been very supportive of the Wurundjeri people," he said. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-05-14/moreland-council-name-change/101067568


HammondCheeseman

I wonder what the politics are behind this. At least one Wurundjeri elder has claimed that the Merri-bek isn't authentic language. It's bad enough that a poorly thought out name was applied in the 90's. Would prefer that this is a long term solution - I I'm already living in a council area named after a corruption of language.


Able-Tradition-2139

“Bek” is often/usually spelled “Biik” and has been reccomended to be pronounced as such. The fact is there are always conflicting views and Uncle Ian Hunter is often at ends with the rest of the Wurundjeri Council.


Lalalalala888928

I did this survey and I felt pretty consulted. Also, great reason for changing and and I’m honestly not one to really get super attached to the name of my god damn council? Lolll. Imagine if they gave people the option to select a random council name of their choice?? That would be a bloody administrative nightmare lol. And I feel like this lot still wouldn’t be happy because not enough people voted for their random council name suggestion? Hope this isn’t wasting too much of the ratepayers money.


Fatesurge

Councy McCounce Face.


Tourist-1982

500K, apparently. Think of how many ways this could be better spent in the community.


TinyBreak

Yes. Because we all care DEEPLY about our local councils…


cinnamonbrook

But why do they even care? They haven't given a good reason aside from "we weren't asked!" Because they know they can't say the real reason out loud. I can't ever remember giving a single shit what my local council is called. It's not like they're changing the suburbs and all the street names and everyone suddenly has to scramble to change their address and documents. They're complaining about being called racist when they speak out on social media. Maybe if they didn't want to be called racist, they shouldn't care about a token gesture to the traditional owners of the land that literally doesn't affect or hurt them in any way.


ftjlster

They're there arguing that they should have been given the choice to select a name. I'm here thinking human kind has proven over and over again that when you offer a community the chance to name something, you end up with Council McCouncilface.


manhaterxxx

I live in Moreand and we received *multiple* pieces of information about why, when, and how to vote for a change. They’re full of shit and clearly have an agenda.


Aware_Program_7227

Their point appears to be that not changing wasn't an option.


manhaterxxx

It was if they attended any of the in-person meetings. Although I don’t really see why you wouldn’t want it changed.


bipolarfinancialhelp

Stupid thing is they were given the chance to provide a response. Across a number of avenues. It's on these whinging dicks for not engaging in the process.


ruinawish

Besides what you've stated, I seriously wonder if it's a NIMBY-ism of sorts. That is, "Hey, I didn't get a say (or didn't like the choices), therefore I don't like it", as the 'progressive' resident Ray Pastoors tried to explain.


Inside_Yoghurt

Totally otherwise uninterested resident Ray Pastoors also participated in the Moreland council election in 2016 under the Greens, got a mighty 2.51% of the primary vote in the South Ward.


PizzaReheat

Honestly. Nobody says that they live or work in Moreland. I don’t know anybody who identifies with the “Moreland community”. If they were complaining about money, or resources I would understand (but ultimately disagree).


steven_quarterbrain

> If they were complaining about money… I would understand… ‘The council has estimated the cost of the name change at $500,000 over two financial years, but Independent Councillor Oscar Yildiz said he believed that would blow out. “It will cost in the millions,” said Yildiz, one of three of 11 councillors who opposed the renaming.’


Michael_je123

Of course the Councillor which claims it is a bad idea, will claim the cost calculations are wrong.


steven_quarterbrain

Still - half a million dollars would do wonders for underfunded social programs in the community.


yogyadreams

Great. Never voting for him.


Beasting-25-8

So you're effectively saying that they're racist by default for disagreeing. I really dislike that attitude. It's assuming something hugely negative without reason, and seemingly an attempt to stifle discussion.


[deleted]

I agree. It's too loaded and not a productive conversation to have. There's a decent chance it's there, but I suspect most of it is money related


Beasting-25-8

Pretty much, I've already had one weirdo call me a racist here, it's just a stick to hit other people with at this point. It could be racism, but it's a terrible thing to say of someone on a "could".


Taleya

Break it down - we weren't informed! Yes you were, multiple times, massive media campaign, became state, then national news - we weren't *asked*! Yes you were, see above plus mailouts and repeated links to the [council site set up for it](https://conversations.moreland.vic.gov.au/renaming/have-your-say) to the point some dipshit (moi) in *bayside* knew about it. - i can't talk about this on SM without being called racist. Uhhh that's not the pwn you think it is mate, i gotta ask wtf you are *saying*? (With that last one, I'm an outright foul mouthed offensive cunt and still manage to avoid dings of this nature so i side eye anyone who claims they're *innocent victims *of the pc brigade. Pig's arse, mate.) If you have a chunk of arguments that are incorrect, lies, or just straight up bad faith, then yeah, people aren't gonna take you seriously and assume the worst of you. Try not coming in hard atop a barrel of bullshit next time


Beasting-25-8

I was literally called a racist on this thread for merely suggesting reasons why they could be against it. Most people are reasonable, but there's always some fool who just wants to use racism as a bat to hit anyone who disagrees with them. There's literally a letter stating they want to bypass debate. To be frank that alone would annoy me if I was a resident.


theartistduring

But what are they disagreeing about? Yes, yes... besides the survey. They wanted the option to not change the name but why not? Why don't they want it changed? That is the question to the answer you find uncomfortable.


aseriousplate

i think most people are annoyed about councils wasting millions of dollars on things like this, not because they secretly love slavery.


DryBeach8652

Moreland council has a history of pushing through changes and falsely presenting that community consultation has taken place (see Hosken Reserve). Given a choice, I would have happily voted to change the name, and I did vote for Merri-bek. But I'm still unhappy that the council publicised that community consultation had taken place when it actually hadn't.


hlidsaeda

Technically under law they don’t gave to consult AT ALL to change the name. They did a reduced consultation on purpose as local Aboriginal people asked them to as they didn’t want a repeat of the hatred that came out in the same sex marriage postal survey.


TigerRumMonkey

In my local area, the council held consultation sessions which ended up proclaiming they had made their minds up and we're going to do the thing they were 'consulting' about doing... Everyone rallied up and shut it down. #community


theartistduring

Re read my comment. People aren't saying that not being asked is racist. They're saying the reasons people wanted to say no are likely racist. You would have voted yes. Ergo, the statement doesn't apply to you.


aldkGoodAussieName

Again there are multiple reasons. The high cost The lack of choice on what new name. The lake of choice in changing


theartistduring

The lack of choice? How many choices did you want?! You can't have too many or the split vote would mean the winner would have a small % of votes and even more people being pissed off. And GO with the cost thing again. Cost v being named after a slave plantation is a racist argument. Oh, it's OK to be named for a literal slave camp because money is more important than integrity and respect. Councils waste money in much more frivolous ways than this. Instead of bitching about the cost and pretending you're not racist for wanting to remain linked to slavery, why not make noise about other waste to offset the very worthwhile cost of NOT BEING NAMED AFTER A SLAVE CAMP.


manhaterxxx

But it had. Through multiple communications in the mail *plus* an in-person town hall meeting.


DryBeach8652

Lots of consultation about the choices for names, but no actual community input on whether or not the name should be changed in the first place. To say that x number of people voted 'no change' is so misleading because that wasn't an option given at any stage, the survey was just the 3 name options and a comment section where some people wrote in no change. As I said, I would have voted yes to change and I am happy with Merri-bek, but I resent the council misrepresenting what took place.


genwhy

Presumably they're fed up with a small unrepresentative group of campaign sipping yuppies in council spending their rates on expensive token gestures. Rebrands are expensive as fuck, just replacing all the street signs alone requires a lot of steel manufacturing. I support the name change, but I recognise that some might think it's more beneficial to own both the good and bad parts of their history rather than whitewashing it away.


Beasting-25-8

You don't know why they disagree so you assume racism. That's a terrible attitude.


theartistduring

Ball is in your court. Why would someone want to keep the council named after a slave plantation over an indigenous word?


B7UNM

Because millions of dollars of council money could be better spent


theartistduring

So severing ties from a slave plantation is a waste of money? Tbh, that still sounds racist.


aldkGoodAussieName

>So *spending millions* severing ties *by a token name change* from a slave plantation is a waste of money *when that money could be used in the community*.


theartistduring

The money is being used in the community. They're not spending it in some other community. But seeing as you're such an expert of the council's finances, please list all the budget expenditure for the year and all the other wasteful spending you're crying online about? Or is it only when it is to remove reminders of the dehumanising and torture of black folk to replace it with respectful reminders of black folk's history that is worth your knickers knotting?


HammerOvGrendel

Moreland's staff went on strike just a few weeks ago because their EBA was so shit while the councilors voted themselves pay rises. There is 100% a financial component to this argument.


Beasting-25-8

You know you can talk to me like I'm a human right? "The ball is in your court" bruh. I don't live there. My opinion holds no relevance. However the idea that someone can't be connected to the name is ridiculous. Only providing indigenous names as alternatives is pretty weird too. Calling every opinion you dislike "racist" is not a method of civil discussion. It's just throwing out an insult for its own sake. It also opens you up to being called a hypocrite. I could argue that the tokenism displayed by the Council is in and of itself "racist" and offensive.


theartistduring

Whatever, mate. You countered that it wasn't racist to not want change. I simply left it to you to give alternatives. I lived in Moreland. My family has long connections in Moreland with three generations on two sides of my tree being raised there. I was very fond of the name until I learned rhe history. Discovering it is named for a place of horror and torture for people quickly soured any affection I had for it. I have no qualms in saying that if you care more about letters on a page than actual human beings - even historical one - the you're racist. Maybe just casually so but definitely enough that you should pause and reflect on why you'd prefer to stay connected to the slave trade than concede it in no longer appropriate.


Beasting-25-8

So here you are, using "racist" as a weak attempt to discourage discource. You're in such a desperate rush to stop any discussion you've called me a racist and claimed I don't want a name change even when I've yet to provide an opinion. You very obviously have no interest in any actual discussion as you're just looking for any possible opportunity to call people racist. Ultimately you're no better than any other internet random throwing out generic insults. Ultimately your behaviour is your problem, not mine.


cinnamonbrook

When did they discourage discourse? They literally keep asking you for a reason but neither you nor the people in the article can give one. You're being asked for discussion but you don't actually have anything to say lol.


theartistduring

Ah yes, the rush to stop discourse after replying multiple times... But ok. Have it your way. I'm done here. Or are those words not 'human' enough for you, like 'ball in your court' was in some alien tongue... Enjoy your day.


cinnamonbrook

People were homophobic by default for disagreeing with marriage equality even though it didn't effect them either. But no, I'm not saying they're racist by default for disagreeing. They're racist because they don't actually have a reason why they're against a token gesture to remove a slave owner's name from the council. They were given a platform to talk about their reasoning, and it's clearly an issue they care deeply about since they're kicking up such a fuss. But they didn't actually have a reasoning they could give the papers. Why do you think that was? If they had a compelling reason. An effect it would have on them besides having to tolerate an Aboriginal word, then sure, they might not be racist. But they don't have a reason, do they?


Beasting-25-8

So again, you're just assuming racism. That's an utterly awful thing to assume of someone.


[deleted]

The name Moreland has stood for 28 years. 28 years where the Wurundjeri people and the victims of the transatlantic slave trade have had to put up with it. The campaign for change has been a long time coming. It hasn’t popped up out of nowhere. Now, at the precipice, these people are saying that the people who are victimised by this should wait further, longer, for this inappropriate name. What are the objections to the name as chosen by the survey? Consulatativeness is an absolute molehill to make a mountain out of without a valid objection to the name that has been proposed.


Zealous_Bend

I've got some errands I need help with. Clearly they have too much time on their hands...


olly128

Both people in those photos look like the kind of people that Domain always talks about “young couple buy $2.5m dollar home” while ignoring their rich boomer parents funded it for them.


Kar98

Because it's going to cost 500k to change a name that doesnt need changing


mr-snrub-

Well it kinda does need changing cause it's named after a slave owner... If the council was called City of Hitler, do you think it should be changed? $500k is honestly chump change when it comes to how much money councils spend. Not too long ago the City of Melton spent something like $10k on a "fundraising" morning tea that only councillors were allowed to attend. If people were consistent in their criticism of council spending, then they'd have more of a valid argument. But when they're only speaking up about it now, it's kinda weird. It hasn't even been City of Moreland for that long. I wonder if they had the same argument about costs when it was changed from the City of Brunswick to City of Moreland 28 years ago.


unbeliever87

Maybe they just like the name?


bipolarfinancialhelp

Sure. But the name is literally named after a slave plantation. If you can't understand how and why that's racist and insensitive, then that's a you issue.


gotnomiddlename

Lord Melbourne was a fan of slavery too.


unbeliever87

It's possible to know the history and still like the name, you don't have to assign malicious or racist tendencies to every opinion.


wordswontcomeout

It’s disappointing that you’re an Essendon supporter. You’d think the work that Michael long has done would make you see the bigger picture. Like the name Moreland, come off it.


unbeliever87

Get off your high horse. I don't live in Moreland, I have no opinion about the name. I'm suggesting that people might want to keep the name for reasons other than racism...which shouldn't be a difficult concept to understand.


yhwrmwfcmn

It was literally in our council magazine mailout, if they supposedly care so much then they should fucking read it in the first place and they wouldve known.


jd66jd

Yep I received multiple communications about it on multiple platforms over an extended period of time, so I'm pressing *doubt* on how much they actually care. Wouldn't be surprised if it was the same group of people protesting the elevated train lines 🙄


aCorgiDriver

There was also a separate pamphlet about it vetting the three options the council were considering.


amca01

I'm a resident and rate-payer, and although there were some initial mutterings about the lack of a "no change" option, the response to change was overwhelmingly positive. Personally, I'm quite happy with the Council making the decision to change the name, and then using a ballot to decide on the new name. But I wouldn't have minded either for the Council simply to change the name without any consultation. After all, the name Moreland itself was chosen only relatively recently, after the Kennett amalgamania in the 1990s. It's not as though the "City of Moreland" under that name, has a huge history. An excellent article about "rewriting history" (by a professional historian) is at [https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/10/rewriting-history-historians-statue-past](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/10/rewriting-history-historians-statue-past) I recommend it to you!


heavymetalchunder

Resident of 8 years 🤣


ruinawish

That's eight years of history, identity and connection under the Moreland banner.


mr-snrub-

That's less time than I spent in my childhood house and I have no affection for the name of City of Brimbank. Just seems like an odd thing to be attached to. Hell, I've been alive longer than the City of Moreland has existed. Where was the outcry when they got rid of City of Brunswick, Coburg, and Broadmeadows?


[deleted]

There was. People hated pretty much everything Kennett did.


mess_of_limbs

Umm, they're also a ratepayer. Show some respect!


heavymetalchunder

My bad 😂


Subject_Shoulder

Reminds me of that Randy Feltface sketch where he argues that you should name places based on what is actually there, such as Shitty Water Feature or Stabbyville.


hawthorne00

*in such a big change* I'm sure all the concerns are stationery and signage based. Don't jump to any conclusions, particularly not y'know, that one. It's all about process, consultation and stationery. Such a huge change. Let's not be hasty.


blue_reaction

This was already addressed by the council, there didn't need to be consultation on if we should change a name associated with slavery of an LGA, all it would do was waste money and give cunts an opportunity to say hurtful things under the guise of expressing themselves, like the marriage plebiscite. This is actually literally politicians doing their job properly in a representative democracy, get it done without wasting time and money giving a platform to some shitheel to make people feel bad.


blue_reaction

There is a whole thing about North and South Moreland where the northerners don't realise they are outnumbered by the southerners who vote greens and feel like the council ignores them but actually they're just a minority and that's the way the cookie crumbles


toholio

> the southerners who vote greens and feel like the council ignores them Amazingly even in situations where you can show that an amount disproportionately favouring the north part of the city is spent they still make the complaint! I think this is at least in part due to a particular populist councillor that loves to rabble rouse. It's a strategy that will keep getting him elected for the time being.


jimRickey

politicians doing their job is to canvas widely and take the majority with them , not scheme behind closed doors, limit consultation and rig the process to get their preferred result


fraqtl

> politicians doing their job is to canvas widely and take the majority with them That's what happens during an election. We canvas widely and elect people to make decisions on our behalf.


wharblgarbl

> not scheme behind closed doors Can't you read the minutes of every boring ass council meeting?


blue_reaction

The reality in Moreland is that there is a majority progressive council and progressive populace, this is the councillors correctly representing their voters. There is no conspiracy here just a bunch of privileged people who are a minority for the first time in their life and squealing about not getting what they want. If you want to see an example of not representing the populace, Tony Abbott refusing to support the marriage plebiscite despite the overwhelming majority of his constituents wanting him to would be a good one.


jimRickey

where is the majority of which you speak when only 3% of moreland residents made it to the survey page to tick one of 3 boxes .. 97% of residents did not participate, that is a patent failure of the consultation process and only 2 % voted for what was probably the least worse name - 'Merri bek' a name that is the invention of only one person evidently and uses words that do not exist in the warrundjeri language, on these grounds alone the whole process should be scrapped or rerun correctly .


aldkGoodAussieName

Then why vote on a name if that is what council is there for? Or why not put it to the public to suggest names


blue_reaction

Because the name isn't a divisive issue that will give a platform to a bunch of crypto-racists to say hurtful things for no reason when we already know the outcome, once again look at what happened with the marriage plebiscite.


toholio

> look at what happened with the marriage plebiscite. And what's going to happen on the indigenous voice plebiscite. From what I've seen in the local groups, the Facebook motorbikes and jetskis angry about this aren't coming with very nice opinions in general. They're also pretty clearly a minority.


Superannuatedpunk

Oh God. These fuckin dorks… Have a sook, cunts.


Mysterious-Cause-857

Does anyone know where can I sign it? Thanks


it1swhatit1s

I wonder if they are going to rename Moreland Road and if all of the businesses with the name Moreland will change name?


thy16

Council McCouncilface


olly128

I’d also settle for “Get on the beers” translated into the local indigenous language.


pygmy

~~Dja Dja Wurrung ~~ Chug Chug Magrogg


biggirliespants

Hahaha. And there we have it. The inner northern suburbs in a nutshell. 'I am really concerned about homeless people but I'll fight to the death to stop social housing being built in my street '. These people are so scummy. Reminds me of a certain so called woman journalist who boasts about her workin' class background and how she lives in the Socialist Republic of Moreland, and then sneers at people in the outer suburbs ie the actual working classes who live in 'McMansions'.


corbusierabusier

Being a middle class progressive almost never translates into liking poor people.


nashvilleh0tchicken

Are we talking Clementine Ford? Genuine question


Bocca013

I imagine my dad's side of the family would be there complaining. They whinge about everything as it is.


Revanchist99

Did anyone carry on like this when Kennet reorganised the entire state's local government in 1994?


bavotto

Yes, and they still do. Particularly in country areas about how they had it better when they hadn’t merged, or two towns relatively close have nothing in common, or identities lost...


Revanchist99

Can't help but laugh at LGA "identity".


Lintson

They see me opposing A name change I know they're all thinking I'm so white 'n' racist


epicpillowcase

*wrings hands, wipes small tear* Won't someone please think of the upper-middle-class white people?! They should move to Brighton.


CautiousKieran

They don't wanna live in the same suburb as their parents...


droppedpie_

Oh god. Could you imagine the Brighton set having to change their name to an **indigenous** one! Property prices would plummet. The horror!!


biggirliespants

Nah, because they're 'workin' class' don't you know. Also, the City of Moreland is where all their anti vaxxer mates live.


emgyres

What a hill to die on, I’m in Whitehorse, it could be called Chuzzlewuzzle for all I care, so long as Chuzzlewuzzle wasn’t an ex slave plantation.


fraqtl

I would move to a council area named Chuzzlewuzzle.


snoozycarrot

I wonder if they would have undertaken consultation with traditional land owners if they were going to be able to give their option? If they’re so progressive, surely they can recognise why Council had to provide their own choices.


nexus9991

I think the name they landed on is pretty good- but I didn’t vote. However I do agree with some of their grievances. This change affects every thing in the area. It’s not just stationary and business cards. Every wheelie bin, every street sign, every website, every road sign, every bus shelter that states “Moreland” will need to change Suddenly it adds up to more $500,000 One of their issues is that the costing is not transparent. I agree with that. And what about Moreland train station - and every single reference on PTV. Will that retain a slave plantation name? Then it become a taxpayer cost. I think it’s the right move, but it will mean higher rates eventually


fraqtl

> And what about Moreland train station That's got nothing to do with the council.


NinjaCatMog

It is my understanding that all those little things that you mentioned - street signs, bins etc won’t be changed initially. They will only be upgraded when they are due. Therefore no additional cost.


Able-Tradition-2139

This is correct. It will be hardly noticeable, if at all


[deleted]

I’m in moreland, don’t care what it is or will be called really, I’ll only know what its called when the rates notice comes in. But when you think of how vast the moreland branding is, the cost of this name change really is a worry.


Positivitron3

Can't believe how vitriolic these comments are. We are seriously losing our ability to talk to each other in good faith. Everyone has convinced themselves that the "other side" is so unreasonable, you don't even have to treat them with civility anymore. Everyone on "your side" will have your back right. You're a community. You probably share more common beliefs with each other than any person who ever set foot on that plantation.


krupture

Well, if you stay ambiguous about the “position” you hold, it is clear why, and what you are.


Own_Weight2206

This is insane. As a confirmed socialist, it kills me these far left fucking clowns are what drives people to the right. Does anyone, even the most far right fucking lunatics, ever suggest that slavery was a good thing? Why expunge it from history? In case someone, hundreds of years after the event, gets upset? It’s a fucking nonsense. They tried this in Liverpool, the very epicentre of the slave trade, when one councillor attempted to get all the streets renamed that were associated with slavery. She soon got told to wind her neck in when someone realised Penny Lane was named after Admiral Penny… This is all bullshit. Counter productive bullshit.


fraqtl

> Why expunge it from history? You are obviously missing the point. Nothing is being expunged. There is a difference between being expunged and not glorifying the people who perpetrated it.


Own_Weight2206

Oh come on. Nobody is being glorified, not today in any shape or form. In fact the polar opposite is true; as if anyone whose ancestors were connected to slavery would even want that known, never mind ‘glorified’. I think in the modern day clamour to remove anything that might upset someone, somewhere, that is where the point gets missed.


fraqtl

When you have your name immortalised by having it attched to a council, or a prominent statue or anything else that keeps your name in people's minds, your name is being glorified. > In fact the polar opposite is true If this was a true statement, no one would be able to identify the name "Moreland" without having to google it. > I think in the modern day clamour to remove anything that might upset someone and as usual for your lot, the point has flown over your head with plenty of room to spare.


fuzzygroodle

So these individual opinions matter more than the other ~6000 people that responded to the survey? They had their chance to express their preference, they are just pissy that majority determined that theirs wasn’t the popular vote.


jimRickey

6000 is less than 3% of moreland residents, some majority.


fraqtl

1400 is less than a quarter of that, even less of a majority.


simon42069666

Fuck me who are these absolute loser up in arms about what their local council is called. Smfh


vacri

Clearly it matters, otherwise there wouldn't be a name change proposal in the first place


peatfreak

The comments to this story are surprisingly dismissive and reactionary. Local councils are becoming increasingly important, and residents' voices should be heard. I personally would agree to a name change, but I would also be pissed off if my community wasn't consulted. The residents *are* rate payers, after all.


LanewayRat

But they *were* consulted! Read the comments from people who live there and got the information.


fraqtl

> residents' voices should be heard They were.


fraqtl

I'd put money on there being not a single person of colour in that 1400


kasenyee

Who made such a big fuss about this that they’re now spending millions changing the name. What a freakin waist of money and time.


SweatyAnalProlapse

Moreland council have always had two primary goals: patting themselves on the back and brown paper bags from developers. This might just tick off both boxes. Local councils were a mistake.


KornFan86

big fans of sugar slave families, I guess


Unlikely_Code2391

Yes, that must be the only reason!


yvonne_taco

The whitest of the whites with control issues. Just because some 'once was' doesn't mean it always 'has to be'.


JordanC51203

“Just because some 'once was' doesn't mean it always 'has to be'.” Holy shit, I just had a really fucked thought about that. That exact argument could be used about First Nation land. I’d say you probably shouldn’t use that argument. That’s definitely not a fucking good point to use for ANYTHING, especially when it comes to discussions like these. You know how badly shit like this can be misconstrued nowadays.


[deleted]

[удалено]


fraqtl

Cool, another person who doesn't know what virtue signalling is


bladez_edge

Should change Kingston's name while we are at it... I'm not living in Jamaica, but we judging by the antics in the Costco carpark we are all smoking the sacred herb.


RedDuke916

wokeland


jonesday5

I don’t think this petition deserves airtime. We voted this council in and they gave us options for the name. The name Moreland should be changed and if someone is really upset with the fact it’s changing for economic purposes I think they’re better off looking for other savings within the council.